September 4

Barry Andruschak, National Sales Director at Primerica


“Barry was born and raised in Vancouver, BC. He has a diploma of Aviation Technology from Selkirk College. After 3 years of trying to make a living as a pilot, he was introduced to the A.L. Williams Corporation, now called Primerica, in 1985. He became Primerica Canada’s first Regional Vice President independent sales agent in 1986. He currently holds the title of National Sales Director and lives with his family in Victoria, BC.

He wrote, “Prospecting and Setting Appointments Made Easy” (available on Amazon) mainly to help introverted salespeople get better results when contacting people for appointments. All proceeds from book sales go to Kidsport to help children play a sport they may not otherwise be able to afford.”

Podcast Highlights:

  • Your beliefs drive performance
  • There are 4 types of markets
  • Focus on Analytics to be successful

Contact Barry:

[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]

Umar Hameed 0:06
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone. This is Umar Hameed, your host and welcome to the no limit selling podcast where industry leaders share their tips, strategies and advice on how to make you better, stronger, faster, get ready for another episode

Umar Hameed 0:35
Today I'm privileged to have Barry Andruschak, you've written a book, Setting Appointments Made Easy, welcome to the program.

Barry Andruschak 0:41
Thank you, Umar. It's a pleasure to be with you. I'm a fan of your podcast already.

Umar Hameed 0:45
So Barry the reason I mentioned the book is you know, if you want to make a grown man cry, you know in in the sales process, there's getting appointments, there's during the presentation handling objections, closing the deal, getting referrals going deeper into the account, the one that makes them cry is don't make me cold call,

Barry Andruschak 1:01
You can have a greatest product or service in the world. But if you can't get an appointment, get anyone to listen to you, then it's almost pointless. Appointments are everything.

Umar Hameed 1:08
So Barry, in 90 seconds tell us who you are and what you do.

Barry Andruschak 1:11
I'm a national sales director with primerica financial services, the largest independent financial services marketing agency in North America, I am not a salesperson by trade. I'm a pilot actually by trade, but I couldn't get a regular flying job in the early 80s. So I fell back on sales to try and make me some money to keep me paying my rent and eating between jobs. And I found out that I liked the Primerica business model and the way of making money, they're better than I like flying airplanes. So I quit being a pilot and became the first independent sales representative for primarily in Canada in 1986. opened up the province of BC I have 31 offices across Canada. And I essentially I recruit and train people to be financial advisors and then train the most ambitious ones to open up their own branch offices and monitor branch offices across the country.

Umar Hameed 1:59
That is brilliant. I actually started flying got my solo and another day, I'll tell you about the the adventures in flying and what you should not do when you're up in the air.

Barry Andruschak 2:11
Love to hear it.

Umar Hameed 2:14
So Barry, you're getting people in our society, there's three areas that people are really focused on. One is beliefs about money, and most people have negative beliefs around money. The second one is belief around sales. And most people have negative beliefs around sales. And the third one is luck. We won't talk about that. But you're getting people to go into an industry where they need to talk about money, and they need to be salespeople. So how do you find the right candidates? And how do you get them to kind of overcome their hesitations? And actually go on this journey with you?

Barry Andruschak 2:49
Well, first of all, I always believe that a good salesperson, a good adviser, a good leader, Coach has to believe 100% what it is they're they're selling once you believe in it, and you're excited about it, and it's helped you, then you can you feel motivated to want to share it with your closest friends and family, if it's something that truly helps you. And that's what helped me I'm not a salesperson by trade, like I say I'm a pilot. But when I found out how money worked, how it was a lot easier to you know, get an investment program and save for the future than I thought it was. I got excited about it and started becoming a client myself. And then I realized none of my friends and family knew anything about money or investing either. So I started showing them what I was doing, and they became clients. And some of them said, Hey, listen, how did you get involved in this? Can I can I can I do this as well. And we specialize in training people, you know, part time for careers in the business. So I said sure I could train you. So the first thing was, was it something that their friends and family needed? Yes. Was it a way that they could make money relatively easily without it costing their friends and family? A lot of money? Yes. So then the question was, how do we get appointments to see those people? I believe that there's we essentially identify our market in four different ways. If you want me to go into that detail first Umar, I can.

Umar Hameed 4:01
Yeah, let's go down there. And let's kind of break this down. This would be a very kind of a training centric podcast. Normally we do interviews to figure out careers. But I think this is such an important issue. Because there's a lot of people out there that could be making a real good living in sales that are literally starving because they can't get appointments.

Barry Andruschak 4:22
And that was one of my biggest fears. I'm an introvert by nature. And I found that most sales people are extroverted. They like to be out talking to people in networking and making calls and seeing people and I like to do a presentation, but I was nervous to talk to people but what it is and so when I went to sales training seminars, it was often too loud or pushy for me. And so I wanted to find a way that I could call people reduce the rejection that a lot of people get when they make a first phone call, overcome any quick areas of concerns, warm people up on the phone and cause them to want to see me phone call. So I studied a lot about appointments. reading a lot about what what prospecting was. And I felt the first thing was what is prospecting. And most people to prospecting is going out and meeting people and getting names and trying to set appointments with them and getting people interested in your opportunity. But I found out that prospecting, the simple definition of it really is, is putting names on a list. And if you just start with a blank piece of paper and just say, Who do I know who I think would benefit from my offering, and just start with close friends or family starts with business associates, starts with classmates start with, they say, We know, each one of us knows 450 people, and not know if that's true or not. But we do. And I've always believed that if you really start thinking about like, if you know somebody who's a friend of yours, and you might want to send in a plan with them, but it's not just who they are, it's who they know. And they, most people have at least the buying influence on five or six other people. So if I can make a friend with this person, and he likes what I do, he'll refer me on to other people. So it's not just that person, it's the people they know. So all of a sudden, my market continues to expand bigger than most people think it is. That's the start, okay. But when we identify our market, there's essentially four types. There's the hot market, warm market, cold market, cold market, most people think sales is done in the cold market. But what I learned is a cold market really is nothing more than people, you have nothing in common with strangers or people that you don't know or people that you've made mad, they don't want to talk to you. But a cool market prospect is somebody that you have something in common with. So if I can meet somebody and instantly have something in common with like, for instance, Umar, we just met, essentially, but we have something in common. We're both Canadians. So we talk about those things. So all of a sudden, we've gone from cold not knowing each other to something in common with. And the more we talk about our mutual interest, our mutual Association, we decide, Hey, I like this person is a good person, I like them.

Umar Hameed 6:49
So I was just gonna add. So that was very intentional, on my part to mention that we're both fellow Canadians, because when we were coming out of the caves survival depended on the tribe, if you weren't in a tribe, you were dead. And if there were other tribes, they might kill you. Just having that one thing in common with someone else, whether it's kids, countries, jobs, you can hear the change in their tonality, immediately. As soon as they realize, oh, you and I both worked at HP, it just starts a different kind of relationship.

Barry Andruschak 7:18
Exactly. And I believe that good sales, long term good sales careers is built on people that like you and trust you and the relationship you have with, the stronger the relationship you have with people, the more they'll refer you to other people, which makes it easier and easier to set appointments. Because now if you refer me to your top friends, they might not know me at all, but they trust you in referring me to them. And so that's an easier appointment for me to set. Hi, John. It's Barry undershot calling. Umar Hameed gave me your phone number. Did you happen to mention I'd be calling you. So all of a sudden we have a connection? And then I would say you say oh, yeah, no, he didn't mention or Yeah, yeah. Okay. Hey, what's up, Barry, whatever, you know, and I'd say, well, first of all, thanks for taking my call. haven't caught you too bad time if you got five minutes to chat, because I always think one of the biggest mistakes people make when trying to set an appointment is they rushed into their script. And the person they've called has taken the call, but they're in the middle of something busy, and they can't listen. Say listen, very sorry. Hey, man, listen, it's a bad time yet. Okay? If that's what you want. I don't have time right now call me back later. And all of a sudden, you stumble on that phone call and you feel like you've been rejected? You haven't been you just caught them at a bad time, and didn't give them an opportunity to say could you call me back later? So what I started doing is the first thing I do is ask if it's okay to talk. Is this a good time to talk? Do you have five minutes if I caught you at a bad time? And you'll say, if you say yes, you caught me at a bad time, I say no problem. Mark, should I call you back in an hour? Or would tomorrow be better. And you'll say, Hey, call me back in an hour or tomorrow, same time as fine. So now I put you down on my follow up list. And the next time I call you, you're ready, you're waiting for my call because you gave me permission to call you back. So I think if a person when they make their phone call knows exactly what to say, if somebody says no, this is a bad time, they don't get rejected as often. And they'll they're more apt to make more phone calls. So that's that's the first step make sense? Then then I call you back? I'd say if I if and what I like about that tomorrow is when you're talking to people about getting into sales for the first time, the biggest fear they have in the world is somebody saying no to them. But the interesting thing is, Have I caught you at a bad time? And you say no, that's not a rejection. And all of a sudden, they'll say, great, well, listen, and then I then I think it's important that people have a very short time on the phone. So I'd say whom our friend of mine and I can say whatever I want to say. But let's say I represent a company called such and such, we save people money in this area. And my friend John thought you might be seeing the same thing. But are you locked into doing what you're doing right now financially, or career wise? Are you open to taking a look at other things? Are you open suggestions? Are you locked in? Are you open? And now you have a choice,

Umar Hameed 9:48
Right. So sometimes it's really interesting when you get someone that's making those kinds of calls, and you record it and then you say, Okay, well, who's your best friend? It's you know, like Jane Smith is like, okay, just go check with Jane, give her a call and just have a make sure she's okay. And then you play the recording back, they can hear the difference in tonality comfortable in this, like, as you're describing the call. To me, it sounds like you and I are best friends. And this is just a very matter of fact conversation. And I think that that attitude that mindset when you make those calls is critical to your level of success and acceptance by the person you're calling.

Barry Andruschak 10:26
I agree because especially in today's busy world, we only have a few seconds to make a positive impression. And we can either turn our people off on the phone, or we could turn them on, and the tonality and what you say, is very important to get that person warm up to you quickly on the phone. I mean, we've all been approached by cold calling people we've all had, you know, the cold call, and the and you can just imagine, you don't like a cold call typically. And so a person calls you up and say, right, hi, I'm looking for Barry Andrew Shaq right away, you don't know them. Hi, this is Lauren. So with this company, and all of a sudden, you know, it's going to go into a sales pitch and you're annoyed because you're busy. But if you change the language, and to know that rather than say is this so and so I say hi, Umar right away. Your first name is your favorite word in the English language you realize, well this person might know me and I do only by referral. And then I say then I don't use the word This is Barry aftershock. I think this is sounds too formal, use the word it, there's something subtle about the word it's that makes people think they should know you. So again, you're warming up that phone call one second at a time, and all and you'll get better results by warming the person up. Brilliant. So so go on Barry, if we go back to go back to the basic appointment setting, because for those people that are listening to this call in the in the book I wrote, by the way, I didn't write this book to make me money. I give all the people buy it on Audible or Amazon prospecting and setting appointments made easy. I give all the money to charity. I didn't do it. I made it. I designed it for introverts to learn how to set appointments on phones, they can get better at sales in that book. There's every single point in there about what exactly to say on the phone at what time and I would go like this. So if that's how I was calling, calling Umar I'd say, hey, Umar, it's very Andrew Shaq calling I represent a company called XYZ we specialize in whatever it is you do. That's a benefit to the client. Like I say, if you're in financial services, we specialize in helping families get out of debt, reduce taxes, and save money for their kids college education or their retirement. But are you locked into what you're doing right now financially with your family at the moment? Omar? Are you open to suggestions?

Umar Hameed 12:27
And that's an interesting choice of words, because that locked in is not a typical part of our daily conversation. So I think it almost gets someone to kind of go, Hmm, am I locked in. So I liked that phrase ology, and it could have triggered the reptile brain because the reptile brain wants to be free and do what you want to do. And that really gets person into action mode.

Barry Andruschak 12:50
Yeah. And what I found out about that, and of course, I borrowed this from years of listening to great mentors and sales people over the years, but people don't like to think they're locked into anything. So that subtle line just makes you want to say well, no, I'm not locked in.

Umar Hameed 13:04
Not at all and kind of going back tracking, A, that's brilliant. And to back to the phrase ology, who's gonna say, No, I'm not open to suggestion something. No, you know, I'm perfectly happy with my advisor, then you just did a pivot, complimenting them on your buddy said, you know, a lot of people would you be comfortable grabbing a cup of coffee and seeing how it connects, is also something that's non threatening. People want to help people, and you're just giving them an opportunity to help you.

Barry Andruschak 13:32
Exactly. Yeah, glad you phrased it like that. There's something in there in our reptilian brain that says, Wait a sec here. No, I'm not locked in. And it's being polite. Because I'm not like saying that you're being you know, you're not doing it the right way. I'm saying but are you? Let's say he is, let's say you say, Well, I've got a really good financial adviser Barry. I'm really happy doing what I'm doing. But I'm not locked in. I'm open to suggestions always open to a suggestion. I say, Great, Omar. So he probably would have said, No, I've already got an advisor. But he doesn't want to feel locked in I says, Are you open to suggestions? Are you open to? And if he says no, I'm not open? Fine. That's okay. Well, thank you, Umar. My friend John thought you might be totally happy with what you're currently doing. But I was wondering, he said, you also knew a lot of people. Do you mind if I took you out for a cup of coffee 1520 minutes showed you what it is that I'm doing the kind of people I'm looking for? Maybe you could point me in the right direction when you might do that for me, Omar.

Umar Hameed 14:22
So when you share this with new people coming into prime America, what's their reaction? And how long does it take them to get comfortable around this process? And what kind of confidence boosting techniques do you need to use to get someone to step out into the world and kind of operate like this?

Barry Andruschak 14:42
That's right. Well, first of all, what I've learned is that it's you want to make a million dollars a year as an actor or an actress. You have to learn your lines. And I think if you want to make a million dollars a year in sales or any kind of money, you got to learn your lines. And there are certain lines that work and get better results and others and if you practice those You should get results. So what I believe in is training motivated people not trying to find people and motivate them. But finding someone who's motivated to make money motivated to be be a success and give them the tools to get them results. And if they get results, that continues to motivate them. And so if I can, if I can, let's say if you were wanting to get involved in the business, and I would say, okay, find out what it is you want to do and who you want to talk to, I'd help you with your list, I'd say, Okay, if you were to call that person whom are what would you say? And you would tell me, and I'd say, Okay, well, if you change it, make sure if they had a natural phone call presence, I wouldn't try and change that too much. But I would alter it by saying, Okay, well, make sure you ask if you've caught them at a bad time. And you know, use the word are you locked in? Are you open, open suggestions, give them choices? Because people don't like to like to make decision. People have been like to make decisions in commitments, especially if they're not sure what they're saying yes or no to if it offers them the choices, are you locked in? Are you open? And then you say, Well, I'm always open. And I find that by giving people little phrase ology that makes a phone call friendlier, they get less rejection. If they get less rejection, they're more motivated to make the calls because they're getting, they might not get a yes, they might not. They might say, well, Barry, I'd like to talk to you. But I'm really busy right now. Call me back in a month, no problem. Shouldn't say no. Now he's in now he's a follow up. But there's one thing I want to add there that I think makes the difference between what I find is difficult with what I find that trips salespeople up is they get a phone call, the person's interested in talking to them. And then they try and set a time. And they fumble around a little bit. So I think it's important to prepare to make to make to make the call is as important is as important as actually making the call itself. So I'm not sure if 100% of I'm answering your question, but I just want to add one thing to the end of it that helps get results. And that is, let's say I say are you I do this and this and this for families. But are you locked into what you're doing right now? Job wise, career wise, financially? Or are you open to taking a look at Omar says, Hey, I'm always open. And I says great. The first word I use as soon as someone gives me any kind of positive feedback. I use the greatest transition word in the English language. All great salespeople know it, but sometimes we use it so unconsciously, we forget how important it is. And it's not as one word long as two letters long. It's the word if, in my opinion, so if we were to get together for 15 or 20 minutes, or more, would you prefer to get together during the day? Or would the evening be better? Would you prefer to get together during the week? Or would a weekend be better? And you if them into an alternative choice? Even if I'm not 100%? Sure why they're seeing you? You sounded friendly, you weren't pushy? You were you gave them something that interests them about saving taxes, reducing debt, getting a better deal on something or other? And they say, Well, if I was to get, and I haven't made a decision yet to get together with Barry, but if I was to make a decision, yeah, maybe after work is better than during the day? So I'd say well, after work is better. And then so I if them into? Okay, so would you prefer, you know, Tuesday or Thursday, you know, and so on.

Umar Hameed 18:12
If I can interject here very, because I think what you said was kind of brilliant, because you know, that's like the alternative clothes, but by using the F word in order to answer that they need to create a mental construct of actually meeting and the two times and the F word really puts them in charge makes them really comfortable in what they're doing. So it sounds like a lot of the process you're teaching is not complicated. But the languaging is very specific. It's very safe for the person that we're talking to.

Barry Andruschak 18:39
Well, you're at of all, I've been teaching this for 30 years or more. And that is one of the clearest explanations and understanding what it is you're making people feel safe. And you're making them feel that they're in charge of setting the appointment, not you, which puts them in control, so they feel better about you're exactly right. 100%

Umar Hameed 18:58
So, Barry. The one thing I like about this is nothing you've mentioned so far is rocket science. I think a lot of times salespeople and sales managers and organizations try and justify their existence by trying to be more sophisticated than they need to be. If you keep it simple and elegant. You can move quickly and get a lot more yeses than you would otherwise.

Barry Andruschak 19:23
Exactly. Because in sales we all know it's not just a one appointment. You said it's the rhythm and multiple appointments, you set in qualified markets, in your area of expertise. There's a certain ratio to how many appointments you do or how many there's a certain ratio in everybody's world to how many contacts they make to how many appointments they get, and everybody's different, but in a typical warm market, you know, positive environment, you should get one yes, out of every five contacts. That's my been my experience and that's not in everybody's industry. Sometimes it may take you three He calls to get a yes, depending what kind of world you're in. But in my world, if you're dealing with warm markets, you should get one appointment for every five. In other words, two out of 10. And you might get better than that. But here's the interesting thing. People think that the other four that said, they said, No, they don't very few people I find, especially in Canada, who are where we have a tendency to be, you know, we have this polite image of Canadians. Canadians don't like to say no, or don't like the dry glove, they'll they'll put you off, but they won't say no, what I like to get people to do is even if you said, Well, no, no, it's not the right time, or I'm already you don't feel as rejected. So my goal is have a script that I can use over and over again, that can get me at least one appointment every time I pick up the phone. And if I can do that three, four or five times a week, I'm going to have my week, my next week booked with three or four or five apply, but that's all I need to get my business going. It's just they don't, they have to make enough consistent calls to because there's postponements to people postponed appointments, they get busy, and then you're in the realm of follow up. And there's also a ratio of how many appointments you have to do to get a transaction to get a happy client. And everyone's different, there are two so whatever industry people are in that are listening to your podcast, in my world, every time I if I see five potential clients, five potential people that are in my market that are in a sort of our need for what I do, I will get three, I will get three to five clients. It's a very high ratio of but what is your ratio, how many appointments you need to get one client and then you add up how many appointments I have to how many phone calls, I have to set to set those appointments. And now you have a game plan to be successful.

Umar Hameed 21:30
And the one thing I like about your system berry aid, the simplicity of it be it's very process oriented in regards to if someone's not getting the results that they need, that you can help them deconstruct where they're going wrong very quickly and coach them on what they need to do, as opposed to having something that's overly complicated. You're not sure which part of the system isn't working?

Barry Andruschak 21:54
Yes. Especially when you're trying to build a sales team. It's critical for the manager, the leader to teach his people something that's effective, and then be able to monitor what it is that they let's say you and I were talking and you're on the sales team, and you're trying to get your your clients going, you're trying to get your leads? And I say how is your last week going Omar? And you say, Well, I've been making calls but haven't get that many appointments. So what I do is I say how many? So how many you know contacts have you made? You'll tell me most salespeople are really good at avoiding work the work that they need to do to get successful. So I say how many new contacts did you make? How many how many text emails, how many requests did you make to get an appointment? You'll say, Well, I don't know. I made like 15 or 20. Okay, and how many appointments you get? Well, I got about one, his ratios are too low. Right? What that tells me is you're working in too cold of a market. Are you saying the wrong thing on the phone? Because in a normal warm market with a good product and service? You should get an appointment a lot better than that. And so yeah, you're right. I you you deconstruct it by saying, Okay, who are you calling? Omar while you're calling? Okay, no wonder we know what you need to do. You need to warn those people a little bit. I have a whole chapter in my book called warming up the cool market. The I think sometimes it takes time to have a long term successful sales career. And you need to be able to get people to like and trust you to want to not only do business with you, but refer you on to other people that want to do business with you. So I believe it's important to warm people up first, before I start asking them for an appointment or so it's warming up the cold market. So I say to you Umar says you know what, you need to spend a lot more time warming up that market is too cold. You're trying to set appointments with people that don't know You don't know enough about you.

Umar Hameed 23:31
So give me an example of one of the techniques you recommend to warm market up.

Barry Andruschak 23:36
Okay. Let's one of the things is it's very seldom done today, but has a big impact. Thank You cards. I believe that no matter what happens out there in the community, if if let's say you and I were talking and let's say you know you said you were busy you couldn't help me or whatever like that, I probably still send you a thank you card. I say Umar Thank you very much for your call. If you ever change your mind, give me a call. Here's my card. Thank you very much. And I may have your address. I may not i Whatever. But I think a little thank you card to people. Here's another example. Let's say that I've got a group of people that I we have something in common with, I might spend more time getting to know you. Let's say you have kids that go to the school, but I'm too busy drop them off to get to know the parents warming up the coal market. We have something in common, which means our kids go to the same school. We don't know each other. I have no idea what it is you do for a living. I'm not going to right rush right in and say hey, Umar while you're dropping your kid off, can I buy you a cup of coffee and talk you about my financial business? And you're going to go like, wait a sec, who are you and yeah, okay, uh, no. But if I said to you this way, let's say we were dropping our kids off. We're both busy. And I'd say man, busy day, huh? You know, I would I want to get to know you first before I start asking you for an appointment. I know. I'll see you every day at school so I don't need to rush right out. And but what if I said, Hey, are you heading off to work? Oh, no, I got the day off today. Hey, yeah, me too. Hey, do you want to grab a coffee? Sure. So now I'm taking somebody that I have something in common with our kids go to school. And I'm and I want to actually not just develop you into a client or a potential associate, I want to turn you into a friend first. Right? So my prospecting method is, let's turn let's turn strangers into friends first, then friends into clients and Associates.

Umar Hameed 25:17
Brilliant. So Barry, just before we end this podcast, we started this podcast with you saying that, you know, you were pilots, and then you moved into this profession. It sounds like both occupations have a checklist and a process in place. So what are the similarities? Do you think?

Barry Andruschak 25:34
Yeah, I learned a lot about running a good business by the checklists that are in the aviation world. You know, you get into an airplane, there's a checklist, you land, there's a checklist, there's communication, checklists, everything because there's potential danger. If you don't forget to turn your fuel valve in the proper way and you run out of gas, you got a real problem. If you're in an airplane, because you can't sort of pull over the side of the road, you have to stop getting fuel. So checklists are critical. And I think that having checklists in in your business is important too. And I believe the first checklist everybody needs is decide the people you're going to phone call you want if you're in sales, and you make your contact list the night before, make sure that you know exactly who you're going to try and call the day before. It's a checklist. So I'm going to call five people I'm going to call them between nine and 10 have decided how I'm going to contact them but I got to do that's my number one thing or 10 calls or whatever it takes Yes, i My business is run a checklist because when you're when you've checked all the boxes, people are in the right market, you're making the right calls, you're saying the right things, you can't help but be successful.

Umar Hameed 26:37
So Barry, thanks so much for spending time with me today. There's a lot more to learn here. So how can people get a hold of you? How can they find your book? And I just want to commend you on taking the revenue from the book and supporting a charity

Barry Andruschak 26:52
Well thank you Umar. First of all, yeah, they can go on Amazon and Google my name Barry Andruschak, A-N-D-R-U-S-C-H-A-K or they can Google the name of the book, Prospecting and Setting Appointments Made Easy, it's available on Audible it's available depends on how you like to read or or how you like to do things we can get an audible it's about six bucks I think like that, but anyway, yeah, I donate all the money to Kidsport I think is a great charity in Canada and I donate if you're buying in the US I donate the money to Operation duffle bag in the US she has a different charity there and yeah, that's how they can get it and everything I've talked about is contained in that book and it's only takes about two hours to read the whole thing book 10 minutes a chapter.

Umar Hameed 27:30
Barry thanks so much for sitting down with me. I really enjoyed the conversation.

Barry Andruschak 27:34
Yeah me too, Umar. It would be good to meet you one day in person hope we get a chance to do that.

Umar Hameed 27:38

Umar Hameed 27:43
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to iTunes and leave a five-star rating. And if you're looking for more tools, go to my website at nolimitsselling.com. I've got a free mind training course there, that's going to teach you some insights from the world of neuro-linguistic programming and that is the fastest way to get better results.


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