Kay Miller is an expert on Uncopyable Sales. As the first woman ever hired for outside sales by Emerick, a division of Anchor Hocking, she built her formidable sales career by emphasizing long-term relationships over one-time deals.
Kay was later hired by Walker Exhaust, a division of Tenneco, and the largest automotive muffler manufacturer in the world. While there, she was named Walker’s Salesperson of the Year, an accolade that earned her the nickname “Muffler Mama.”
Kay has been a top sales performer ever since, and now speaks and consults. She’s the author of the new book, Uncopyable Sales Secrets – How to Create an Unfair Advantage and Outsell Your Competition. The book has been called “The most fun sales book you’ve ever read,” and is packed with powerful strategies as well as specific actions you can start using immediately to make more sales.
Kay lives outside Seattle with her husband, Steve, and cat, Sam. Her favorite activities include skiing, hiking, and spending time with their adult daughter, Kelly.
[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]
Umar Hameed 0:01
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone! My name is Umar Hameed, I'm your host on The No Limits Selling Podcast, where industry leaders share their tips, strategies and advice on how you can become better, stronger, faster. Just before we get started, I've got a question for you, do you have a negative voice inside your head? We all do, right? I'm gonna help you remove that voice and under 30 days guaranteed, not only remove it, but transform it. So instead of the voice that sabotages you, there's one that propels you to much higher levels of performance and success. There's a link in the show notes, click on it to find out more. All right! Let's get started.
Umar Hameed 0:39
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The No Limits Selling Podcast. Today we have an amazing guest, Kay Miller. She's the author of Uncopyable Sales Secrets. So don't take notes, it's useless, it ain't gonna work. She knows hypnosis, don't look into her eyes. Kay, welcome to the program.
Kay Miller 0:39
Thank you so much. Even though I failed your first test.
Umar Hameed 0:47
Yeah. Let's ask the listeners put it in the comments. There's a gaggle of geese. What do you call a group of crows. And no checking on Google first, it's kind of weird. But Edgar Allan Poe [garbled]...
Kay Miller 1:17
You gave me a clue and I still didn't get it. And I I knew it but hey...
Umar Hameed 1:22
You know, what's kind of interesting is, you know, I lived in Baltimore for a long time and Edgar Allan Poe is from there. And on his birthday, somebody would bring a bottle of brandy to his grave, and no one knew who did it for like decades, and then it stopped. And we all assume that that person passed away and they couldn't do it anymore. But it was pretty amazing. But somebody...
Kay Miller 1:46
It is amazing.
Umar Hameed 1:47
...has that indication to because Edgar Allan Poe will change the world.
Kay Miller 1:51
Yes. And that's what we're trying to do, right?
Umar Hameed 1:54
Brilliant. So you know, sales has been going on, since the dawn of time, I could see like, cave people having kids. And this little like, miniature kid who's you know, about four years old, trying to figure out, "Do I go to mom or dad to get this Brontosaurus steak that I want." And the kids figured out, go to mom for this one and ask mom in this way, and we were such great salespeople when we were young. And then when we get a little older, we're self conscious is like, "I don't want to make, I don't want to pick up a call." So why do you think we go from being fearless as kids to fearful as teenagers and then adults?
Kay Miller 2:32
Well, that's a good question. Because another thing you know, end up looking a little more modern times. A lot of us were entrepreneurs as a kid, I sold all kinds of things. I sold my most successful venture was Kay's Candy.
Umar Hameed 2:49
Oh, I love it.
Kay Miller 2:49
And I love alliteration so I spelled everything with K. And then I sold candles and just crafts with every anything.
Umar Hameed 2:58
Kangaroos, I mean, anything with a K, you were there.
Kay Miller 3:01
Yes. Right. Right. And so I don't know, it's like that kid enthusiasm, like you said that, you know, and, and when you're selling as a kid, I mean, it's a great way to make money, which was my number one goal. But when we sold candy, we went back in those days, they had penny candy at the store.
Umar Hameed 3:22
Kay Miller 3:23
And there were kids in the neighborhood who couldn't go to the store because they're too little. So my friend, and I would just mark it up to two cents. And we made a Killing With A Kay, which is another clue for the crow.
Umar Hameed 3:38
Yes. So it's kind of amazing that, Kay, don't let your husband know, but I'm about to tell you a dirty word.
Kay Miller 3:46
Okay, I won't tell him.
Umar Hameed 3:48
Selling and salespeople, which is not true. But in our society, like I can have 100 salespeople in the room and I'll say, "Please finish this sentence for me," and I go, "Salespeople are..." and someone puts up their hand and goes, "Driven." On one flip chart, I write in green pen driven. And then someone else says, you know, "Motivated," and, "Successful and da..da..da..." And then someone says, "Are untrustworthy," I write on a different flip chart and a red pen, "Out to get you there liars." And these are a group of salespeople that after a while the list of negatives is three times longer than the green list of positives. And then somebody eventually says, "You know, wait a minute, that's not us. That's not what I do. I actually go out there and I help my customers do XYZ." But even in their head, society has embedded the thought that sales is bad and even salespeople when they go to a store and someone says, "I can help you," "No, just looking." So your thoughts on that because we'll go into the book and those Uncopyable Secrets, but that's the underlying ground that we work on, right?
Kay Miller 4:50
Well, I think, you know, at one time sales was kind of sleazy. When you talk about the used car salesman or...
Umar Hameed 4:57
I think certain aspects of it, were was sleazy and probably still are, but most of it was like...
Kay Miller 5:02
Most of it is not. most of it is not. And I like you, I define sales, as you know, really taking the time to find out what somebody wants, their what problem, they have their aspiration, and then meeting that it's so much more fun, it's so much more profitable. And yet we can, you know, most of us can remember even recent examples of someone who sold us in a way that we didn't feel comfortable. You know, it's it's the old golden rule, you know, treat someone like you'd like to be treated. I have a story in the book where someone came and sold power washing to a friend of mine. And he brought out this huge three ring notebook, and just went page by page and just talked and talked, you know, and I don't...
Umar Hameed 5:52
....baby, you're gonna say yes.
Kay Miller 5:54
Oh, my gosh. Her eyes were glazing over, you know, she's fidgeting and, you know, you know, for that, I think, I don't think he had a nefarious intent. But sometimes as salespeople, we just get too wrapped up in what we, you know, we're so excited about so on the other end of that sales conversation, is someone going, "uh," you know, so I think, you know, I think sales has really changed and developed so we kind of remember the old sale style. And then we also remember own personal who, you know, if you've ever sat through a timeshare, you know, presentation not...
Umar Hameed 6:32
Kay Miller 6:32
...to pick on them. But, you know, we we've been in uncomfortable situations. So there are those but like you said, the vast majority of salespeople have great intentions and want to help you get what you want.
Umar Hameed 6:44
Right. So just before we change topics a little bit, you could have someone say, you know, the, well, I'll tell you a story, and then it will put it in context.
Kay Miller 6:51
Umar Hameed 6:52
I was at a corporate event, and they introduced this couple that help homeless high school students out. And this was their story, is that they were watching TV, and there was some dude doing an event for the homeless. And he said, "You know, hey, if you want to help, you know, call us and come to this event on Saturday." So they call up and say, "You know, we'd like to help," and he says, "You know, what would really help is if you could bring 500 bottles of water to this event and some cookies," and that's what they did. They get the suburb and they pick up all the kids, they go to this event. And as they parking, this homeless guy comes up to the window and taps on the window. And the moms lik,e "Oh, my God, I can't believe I brought my kids here in this place with all these homeless, dangerous scoundrels." And the husband rolls down the window and the homeless guy says, "Hey, Mr. How can I help?" and the moms like, "Oh my God." Anyway, they set up the water, and they're giving water around, and there's a kid not coming to their table. And so the husband goes over there and gives the kid a bottle of water and some cookies, the kid won't talk to him. And the husband goes, "Before the days out, that kid's going to talk to me." And he asked another kid, "What's going on with that kid over there?" He says, "You know, he came out. He's only 14 years old, and his father kicked him out of the house so he's homeless right now." And so they decide rather than help all the homeless people, they just want to help kids going to high school that are homeless, and there's 2000 of them in Philadelphia.
Kay Miller 8:08
Umar Hameed 8:08
This is such a huge problem. And the reason I bring that up is these guys are doing amazing work but I had Scott who runs this, and his name is Scotty Scott, which is like a weird name. But guy had even a bad salesperson, that program would not have gotten off the ground, even though it was a noble cause and a social good. If you had someone I want to do that but they can't sell that idea to get the business community to embrace it, it's not going to work. So sales is critical, doesn't matter what you're selling, even if it's the most noble cause in the world appear bad salesperson, those kids don't get help. So selling [garbled], there's a million sales books out there, why is your one relevant?
Kay Miller 8:47
Well, I think one thing I want to point out as in that story is that it sounds like they had a preconceived notion when that one person came up to the window.
Umar Hameed 8:55
We all do.
Kay Miller 8:56
Umar Hameed 8:57
[Garbled] people when you ask people, "What do you think that they're dangerous?" and they're not that human beings. But absolutely.
Kay Miller 9:03
And so, you know, sales to me also, I mean, that is relevant, because it's all about connection. And, you know, through this COVID time, you know, we have, you know, how many people are suffering with mental health because they have are lacking in that connection, you know, a true sales relationship is a connection. You know, I was talking about a somebody I know, recently, who is a great salesperson, he left the distributor he was working with, and there was a non compete clause, but after that ran out, he took his clients with him, because your opportunity as a salesperson is to develop a true relationship and connection. And that's something that we all need, I think more now than ever, with all you know, the, you know, the digital communication and you know, the just the isolation of COVID and even before COVID, you know, we've kind of been pulling back from community, I think. So I think the being the right kind of salesperson is really serving your customer in a lot of ways. You know, when you come in, like for b2b sales, you know, which is what I was in. And when you come into the room, or you call them and they say, "Hey, it's great to hear from you," you know...
Umar Hameed 10:26
Kay Miller 10:26
...there's no reason that you can't be the kind of person that they welcome a visit from, or talk to a talk with.
Umar Hameed 10:33
So how do you build that relationship up, like, walk us through that. Because it sounds simple but even people in normal life outside of sales sometimes have difficulty forming those relationships. So walk us through that, how to build that kind of relationship?
Kay Miller 10:48
Well, when in a sales relationship, as I will start with the beginning, because you can see the picture of the moose if you're watching behind my desk.
Umar Hameed 10:59
Kay Miller 10:59
That is what we call your target market, your ideal customer. And if you want, if you want to know who your ideal prospect is, think about one of your customers, that's your very favorite, that is fun to work with, it pays their bills that you know, that has, like you said, welcomes your call, and you love to talk to them, and you make money from them. That will be, that is your moose, the person that you want to focus on as a customer, person or company. And once you do that, then you can spend more resources, and energy time and even money to really develop a great relationship. I even in the book, and I have a giveaway that you're going to offer your listeners that talks about how to get in the door. Because with somebody...
Umar Hameed 11:48
Unless you get that done, doesn't matter what product you have,
Kay Miller 11:51
Umar Hameed 11:51
where you are, if you don't get [garbled], forget about it.
Kay Miller 11:54
Exactly. So, you know, first you, you have to get in the door, and you have to do something different than everyone else. You know, what makes you stand out from everybody else that's calling on that person. And one of the stories I share in the book is a friend of mine, she's actually my ski buddy and she sells Valpak advertising campaigns.
Umar Hameed 12:17
Kay Miller 12:17
And there was a customer that she couldn't get into. He had great gatekeepers, she made cold call she'd called she emailed, no response. So she made a greeting card with his picture on it, and sent it to him. And we were saying, "Okay, is he gonna call you back now? Do you think they'll call you back?" Oh, no, he called her. And so not only did she get in the door, but they have, he's become a fantastic customer. He said you proved that you're different from everyone else. So if you can find a way to walk your talk from the beginning, that is really put, you know, gives you an advantage. Beyond that, I think the biggest thing is, you know, listening is you know, listening and learning about the customer. A lot of us salespeople love to talk, I'm one of them. Listening and letting silence happen is a discipline. And, you know, really that is how you learn about the customers that you're not, you're not the guy with the big notebook flipping through all of the advantages when all he cares about is three, you know?
Umar Hameed 13:25
Yeah. And I think ultimately, at the end of the day, it's not about you anyway, it's about the customer. And in order to figure out what's going on for the customer because all customers have a guard up, is the more trust you build with the customer more those guards come down. And when you ask a question, that customer reveals more, and once you get like the real issue, then you can figure out whether you can solve it or not. If you don't do that you get red herrings and you kind of solve something that doesn't need solving, or you do a laundry list of all the stuff that you do. So that relationship is critical. And you mentioned listening and listening happens to be a skill that many people suck at. So how do you truly listen?
Kay Miller 14:07
Well, I have some techniques in my book. And you know, it is really I know, you're big on mindset. And you know, this is really an inner discipline that you have to do.
Umar Hameed 14:20
Kay Miller 14:20
You know, one, what's that?
Umar Hameed 14:22
A skill you have to develop.
Kay Miller 14:23
Yes. A skill you have to develop. And so I think practice, it makes you know, practice helps. One of the techniques I use is when someone is talking, resist the urge to think about what you're going to say next. Think of your follow, think of your follow up question, because who doesn't want to talk if they have a business sake. If you ask them something, you can either answer or you can say, "Oh, well, what about that, you know, was the most challenging, you know, how did you start in business," for example. Learning and then going further in the quest training, I think, you know, people love to talk about their business and their situation, their problems so it really is a discipline. You know, and I'm not, you know, on a podcast, of course, my job is to talk.
Umar Hameed 15:12
So Kay, you know, don't tell your significant other. But if you and I went on a date, and I talked about myself for 20 minutes in a row about how fabulous I am, you'd go to the bathroom and sneak out of the back., yeah.
Kay Miller 15:24
I probably opened the window, even if it's a high window,
Umar Hameed 15:27
You're gonna jump.
Kay Miller 15:28
I'll crawl out.
Umar Hameed 15:28
But, if I ask you questions about yourself. 20 minutes will go by, you'd go, "Oh, my God, Umar is such a great conversationalist." And so the same thing is true with our clients is when you go there, and you have your, "This is our company, we've been around this long we do this, our customers love us," and it's not about us, it's about our client. And the more we can get them to open up, the better we know them and the better we connect. Somebody was telling me recently in the podcast interview, his boss would basically say when they're ready to go in to do that meeting, "Hey, Doug, let's go make some friends," and he truly meant it. It wasn't let's go sell them, let's go close them. His goal was, let's go make friends and the byproduct oftentimes would be getting a deal, but that wasn't his intent. The intent was, I want to know them, I want to connect with them, I want to get to like them.
Kay Miller 16:15
That, I love that. Let's go make some friends. One thing that I like to think about is that people never get bored when they're talking. You notice if somebody ever says, "Well, I gotta get going," it's always when you start talking about when they're talking.
Umar Hameed 16:29
Yes. That is true.
Kay Miller 16:32
And Dale, back to Dale Carnegie, you know, I even quote Dale Carnegie and in the book a story about him where he sat with someone all evening long, and listen to all of these, all of these details from this botanist. And at the end of the night, the gentleman said, "Oh, he Dale Carnegie is such a great conversationalist."
Umar Hameed 16:51
Yep. What's kind of sad in the day and age that we live in. There's people that are older, like senior citizens. And sometimes they have nurses come to see them at home. And the nursing has nothing to do with a medical condition. When the nurse comes in and sits down and chats with them for 20-30 minutes, they get more medicine from the conversation than they do from the actual drugs themselves. And I think everybody is longing to connect. So we go in and we get the appointment, how do we land an appointment, I know you've got a giveaway to show people how to do that. But let's give a sneak peek here. And dear listeners and viewers, we're gonna put a link in the show notes so you can go get that so you can be a master of that. But Kay walk me through it. Let's say there's a company, I happen to be in Toronto right now. And downtown Toronto is a company called Rogers is a big, massive national company. And if I want to get in see the VP of sales, how would you recommend I do that?
Kay Miller 17:45
Well, if they are truly your moose, and you know that you really could do some serious...
Umar Hameed 17:47
We're in Canada, people love moose here.
Kay Miller 17:51
Moose, that's right. I would send a moose. I would first of all learn about your contact person. And that should be pretty easy to do besides, you know, between the company information, LinkedIn, check Facebook, find something you know, where they went to school, something about their family and hobby, that would be great. And then one idea that I bet would really stand out and get you an appointment is what we call a shock and awe box.
Umar Hameed 18:24
Oh, I like it.
Kay Miller 18:25
Yes. This goes by, now we have our branding color, which I recommend every [garbled]. Yeah, everything we do is orange, you can see the books back there.
Umar Hameed 18:35
Kay Miller 18:36
Recently, one of my friends told me that orange isn't really my color and I said too late [laugh].
Umar Hameed 18:43
My color is...
Kay Miller 18:44
Umar Hameed 18:45
My color is transparent, and no one can see that. But anyway, please go on.
Kay Miller 18:48
There you go. So in our case, we put, we have ordered custom orange boxes that we send everything in, like when I send you a your book, you'll see it's orange, we wrap it in orange tissue paper. And I would you know, send a package of things that you know, relate to that person and that are interesting to them. And then also some type of a teaser on what you can do for them. Not my company is so fantastic and here's what we do. But you could include something that said, you know, "I've worked with a similar company." Like when I talked about my friend that sent the card, she said, you know, "I think that there's a whole lot more business out there that you're not getting. There are more customers that you can serve and I have some ideas on how to do that," that was her message.
Umar Hameed 19:45
Kay Miller 19:45
And I think that can be a great message and it was true.
Umar Hameed 19:48
And it's A, it's true and B, if you're a head of sales you're curious on, "How do I get more clients," "How do I get my people to get more clients," so brilliant.
Kay Miller 19:56
Right. So and you know, you do have to back that up you have to put some thought and care enter that and say, "Okay, what are some of my ideas?" but, you know, shock and awe package like that, you know, and you can put some money into it, you could, you know, you can even make I have, you know, you could go as far as making a mug like I've got with their picture on it if you wanted. And...
Umar Hameed 20:18
I once sent a fire extinguisher to someone, because there was like, between editorial and sales, there was like a major rift and he was putting out fires all the time, is what I heard, so I sent him a fire extinguisher, "I hear you putting out a lot of fires, let us [garbled]."
Kay Miller 20:31
So how did that work?
Umar Hameed 20:33
Got a meeting.
Kay Miller 20:33
I mean, he got a response.
Umar Hameed 20:34
Got a meeting.
Kay Miller 20:35
Yep, yep. So, so that attention is the first and like I said, you're lucky if you're listening to this podcast, because most people are not doing what you're doing. Most people aren't lifelong learners and looking for these, you know, really creative ways to connect.
Umar Hameed 20:53
And going back to the orange one, that's branding, which is nice. But more importantly, when you're talking to them, "Did you get my package?" "I'm not sure." "It was an orange box," and, "Well, yeah, I got that one." And so yeah, it's a it helps them anchor to that.
Kay Miller 21:07
Umar Hameed 21:08
Do we get that meeting, and we move forward, that first face to face meeting, are there any critical things we need to know on that first meeting that we need to accomplish?
Kay Miller 21:18
Well, you need to really be learning about what their problem is, and some idea of how you can, you know, solve it. Not, not spilling all over, you know, not throwing up on them, as they say, but you know, letting them know that you already have done your homework and that you've studied them and you know something about them, discerning their problems, and then having an idea of how you can solve them. And a great way to do that is to talk about other companies like them, who have had that similar problem and who have you you've helped and the results I'm getting.
Umar Hameed 21:54
So one of the things you said a couple of times in different ways is humans have two needs. One of them is to be an individual, "I want to be me, and I want you to notice on me," but the second one, which is just as big is to be part of a tribe. Because when we came out of the caves survival depended on being in the tribe. And if you got shunned from the tribe, you were dead. And so the first thing you said was, you know, research the person you're about to visit and figure out which school they went to, not because they went to that school, who cares, but it's like, "Oh, my nephew went to the same school," which is like who gives a shit that your nephew want. But it's enough for that person to go, "Really?" There's...
Kay Miller 22:30
Umar Hameed 22:31
...like one form of connection, you do that.
Kay Miller 22:34
Right. [Garbled] good point, yes.
Umar Hameed 22:36
And then the same thing when you're in a meeting with them and you're basically getting them to share what's happening for them. And you say, "I helped a client like this," where you're saying is, "Oh, there's somebody else out there in your tribe who runs a business is having the same thing I help them," and they go, "Oh, part of the tribe." And you help...
Kay Miller 22:52
Umar Hameed 22:53
...them help me to...
Kay Miller 22:53
Umar Hameed 22:54
...need to connect through the tribe is is really important.
Kay Miller 22:59
I believe so and you know, every sales situation is different. But you know, I deal you know, I've always dealt with b2b, and then you're creating a relationship that goes on so so you're making the first sale, and it might have to be something small. Along the way you're building trust, and that is critical, and something that some sales people aren't great at and that is following up. Every time you have a contact, you know, what, you know, when should I follow up is a good answer and you put that on your calendar. And darn it, you got to do that, right?
Umar Hameed 23:30
So here's a couple of reasons why you should do that. Number one, for all the reasons you're about to say, which is, you know, "Hey, that's not the sale gets done is not from the first meeting is the follow up," some more importantly, this human being is going to leave this company, and they're going to go to another company, and if you've been following up and staying connected, soon as they get to the new company, they're going to call you and say, "Oh my God, we need this thing here as well." And if you not following up, then it's just like a bit forgotten you. So you built the relationship, maintain the relationship.
Kay Miller 24:00
Exactly. And, you know, the salesperson, you as the salesperson are, are a huge part of what they're buying. Because a lot of times products and services, you know, one has this advantage, another one has this advantage. You know, you're only put it on together... What's that?
Umar Hameed 24:19
You're all interchangeable, plus or minus.
Kay Miller 24:21
Umar Hameed 24:22
[Garbled] connected makes a difference.
Kay Miller 24:25
Something is probably good enough. It may be you know, a little more expensive or the lead time is you know, shorter, whatever your advantages are. So having a relationship with someone who trusts you and knows I don't have to worry about all this stuff. You know, I am being taken care of. In the book I talk about a woman named Leslie who sold IT products and they ended up paying more for the products but they said, "Oh we buy, we buy Leslie because we get a white glove service," and then Leslie leaves, they go with her. So having that relationship and the trust, I mean, it is sometimes hard to keep up, you know, on top of all your follow ups, but that is huge.
Umar Hameed 25:08
So Kay, a few quick questions before we port companies today. Number one, what makes you happy? What makes Kay happy in her life?
Kay Miller 25:18
Well, I really do enjoy serving people.
Umar Hameed 25:23
Kay Miller 25:23
I mean, I mean, going down the ski slope, but and a beautiful day is it makes me happy to being with my family. I have a daughter who just turned 30 the other day, love of my life, my husband, he's okay, too.
Umar Hameed 25:37
Kay Miller 25:38
Tell you, I have you know, I'm at the point where I have friends who are, can't wait to retire. And most of them have had really intense desk jobs for 30 years. But I've always had this freedom to you know, just design my own life. And I just wrote this book, it came out in May and I'm so excited about it. Really what makes me happy is last night, I went to dinner with some clients and he said, "You know, I really liked how you talked about the moose and relating it to Macy's," because I worked at Macy's and I said, "Okay, here's how we would pick out our moose at Macy's," you have to read the book to find out. But I just love it when people say that really clicked with me that really helped, we've made a lot of changes that have helped us be make more sales and have more success, so honestly, yes, there's nothing better. And making the right sale. I mean, I literally, sometimes feel that adrenaline jolt when someone calls and says, 'Yes, we want to do the deal." I mean, it's you can't deny it's a high, sales people love that. And when it's really the right kind of sale, you know, it's, it's awesome.
Umar Hameed 26:49
Brilliant. What's one piece of advice you'd give someone that they could use today to be more productive, more successful, happier, sleep better, ski better?
Kay Miller 27:00
Well, I'm gonna have to pick one of those. Okay, exercise, that's number one, although I don't always do it myself. But I would recommend that anybody watching, call one of your current customers, when are you really happy customers, and say, "Will you do me a favor and just tell me, in your own words, why you buy," because they know the, you know, the pluses and minuses of your product or service, they know, the whole picture and yet they have decided to work with you so.
Umar Hameed 27:33
They know what they buy, and that's what we need to know. So that's...
Kay Miller 27:36
Umar Hameed 27:37
...totally brilliant. And more importantly, they tell you in their language, their articulation of what they're saying will resonate with people like them, as opposed to how we articulate.
Kay Miller 27:47
Umar Hameed 27:48
I'd add to change that or add to it, is get someone you trust to do it and not you. Because when you do it, they tell you they've got a relationship and [garbled]...
Kay Miller 27:57
Like you want to hear kind of.
Umar Hameed 27:59
...or you've got a relationship. And if you get like one of your buddies to call, they're like, "Oh my God, the reason we love," because they may not be as gushing to you, what the value is. But to one of your homies, they'll be like, "Oh my God, the reason I buy is da...da...da...da...da," and you'll get a more truthful answer and brilliant, brilliant advice. And Kay one more question.
Kay Miller 28:18
That's a great idea. Great twist.
Umar Hameed 28:19
I told you I'm smarter than I looked but you did not believe me.
Kay Miller 28:22
I think I did.
Umar Hameed 28:23
So Kay, here's one last silly question. I used to ask this when I first started the podcast. So I'm thinking of bringing it back, who is your favorite superhero? And why?
Kay Miller 28:33
I just will say the first one that comes to mind is Wonder Woman.
Umar Hameed 28:39
And why why did you like her?
Kay Miller 28:41
Well, I have to admit there's a connection.
Umar Hameed 28:44
Kay Miller 28:44
But she was very tall. And so some of her stunt people were men. And back in my husband, he calls him it's wilderness years. He was briefly a stunt man and he doubled for Wonder Woman.
Umar Hameed 29:00
That is so amazing. Which Wonder Woman did he double for?
Kay Miller 29:03
Umar Hameed 29:04
Oh, the original.
Kay Miller 29:06
Linda Carter. And I just always really liked her and, you know, she's just, you know, superhero and [garbled].
Umar Hameed 29:14
Can you use a picture of your husband in hot pants, you know, we gonna see this. Kay, thank you so much for being on the program. I really enjoyed our conversation and I'm looking forward to our next conversation.
Kay Miller 29:25
Thank you so much, Umar.
Umar Hameed 29:26
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