Anthony Iannarino is a highly respected international speaker, bestselling author, entrepreneur, and sales leader specializing in the complex business-to-business (B2B) sale. He is also a founder and managing partner of two closely-held, family-owned businesses in the staffing industry, leading both entities in strategic planning while growing sales.
Anthony is best known for his work at The Sales Blog, which has helped him gain recognition as a top thought leader in sales strategy. He is also the designer of Level 4 Value Creation™ and Building Consensus, methodologies that help sales organizations achieve transformational, breakthrough results.
In each business, Anthony is focused on helping professionals reach their full potential. In 2007, while growing the sales force of his second staffing firm, he discovered a knack for coaching, and realized that he could make enduring contributions to a company’s sales culture. He began blogging about complex selling processes, and gravitated toward B2B companies facing challenges in sales force management and performance. His transition to professional speaking, consulting, and workshop facilitation led to the development of a trademarked methodology that has proven instrumental in helping sales organizations achieve revenue goals.
Throughout his career, Anthony has helped people in a wide variety of industries and markets think through and overcome their biggest business challenges. His greatest strength is in getting others to build consensus around what must change, and identify the resources within themselves that will drive positive results. Be it through the delivery of staffing solutions or sales strategies, Anthony is a trust builder who focuses on leading transformational conversations, those that create and sustain relationships of value. He is a natural mentor who brings the business acumen, situational knowledge, and experience to each engagement, and lays a solid foundation for future growth.
[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]
Umar Hameed 0:04
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone! My name is Umar Hameed and welcome to the No Limits Selling Podcast where we explore mindset, how leaders grow their people, their teams, their organizations and their revenue. Looking for more? Join us on the Mindset Boosters Group, you'll find the link in the show notes and now let's get on with the show.
Umar Hameed 0:35
Hello everyone. Today I have the pleasure of having Anthony Iannarino with me today and the latest book is "Eat Their Lunch". Welcome to the program.
Anthony Iannarino 0:44
Thanks for having me.
Umar Hameed 0:46
One of the things that happened to me it was like pre-pandemic, I was doing this workshop and I did this brilliant one day workshop, it's introspection, everyone has amazing results. And one of the people who's a business guy says, "Umar, you really need to make this an online course." And my initial reaction was, "How dare you! I have to be there, I have to deliver, it's an experience." And when I woke up the next morning was like, "Man, was that an interesting reaction?" Like I had a really bad reaction, what in it because it's a brilliant idea. So the reason I share that story with you is this Anthony is, right now many salespeople have to go through this virtual way of selling and I'm sure a lot of them, I'm hearing new sales managers they're going, "This is not going to work, I can't wait to get back the old ways, the better way," your thoughts on that.
Anthony Iannarino 1:28
I think the old way is a better way but listen, there, there's been a shift now. And so once you have a shift like this, it's very difficult to come all the way back. Here's what I would tell you, I believe, I believe all things being equal relationships when...
Umar Hameed 1:43
Absolutely!
Anthony Iannarino 1:43
...all things are equal relationships still win. And your job in sales is to make everything on equal anyway. And so there's this concept that people are like, "Well, relationships don't matter anymore." Well, they do but what's changed about the relationship is you have to create value for me, like so it's not just that we're going to be friends. But if we're gonna have a commercial relationship, there's got to be commercial value, economic value of some kind anyway. So what's happened now is that because of a pandemic, we have decided that we can have conversations in let's call it a slightly less rich medium. Okay, so face to face is the richest medium, I mean, that's, that is the gold standard, or the platinum standard, whatever you want to go with, that's the best way to communicate with other human beings and I'll say something just a tiny bit off color here, sexting is not going to replace actual sex like human beings. Human beings have been getting together and being very social and intimate for a very long time but what's happened now is that the rest of the commercial world has accepted, we can have some of these conversations on a slightly less rich medium. And sitting in audio together is a pretty rich medium for where we are right now. And I think what's going to happen is people are going to have to start to recognize that ultimately part of our conversation that we have with clients might be face to face, but a good part of it's going to be in this other medium that we're using now.
Umar Hameed 1:50
So let me challenge you there. So as you know, most people do not feel a connection with other human beings, even when they're in their presence because we're thinking about the next meeting, we're gonna have dinner, all that stuff's going on. When we have this kind of interaction, what I noticed for me sometimes is this less distraction, I'm attending to you more readily, because we're on this medium and all the other distractions are put away, there is no barista grinding coffee in the background, there isn't a pretty woman walking by that I get distracted with. So do you think that there is an element of attention that wasn't there in live presence, because most people aren't that attentive.
Anthony Iannarino 3:56
Most, most people aren't that attentive at all. And I would tell you, if you want to over index on creating a preference for somebody to work with you, give them your full and undivided attention. Right now we have these tools that we use, notifications are turned on your computer, notifications are turned on on your browser, notifications are turned on on your phone. Then you have people walking into your room, like if you're if you're having a meeting in a coffee shop, there's tons of things going on around you. It's very difficult for people to give up all of the distractions that we've not been trained, I mean, people are there, they're picking up their phone, they're getting text messages, they're getting all these things. It's really, I think, becoming a problem more more so than I thought it was it's very difficult for young people especially who've grown up with these tools to just give their full attention over to something and you know, I'm I'm a person who I don't have my email open. Like what you and I are talking I have no idea what's going into my inbox with something is but I don't care about that right now because I care about you and my phone is turned off and my doors are shut and I want to give you my full and undivided attention. It's hard to do that face to face unless you, you decide that I'm going to be very intentional about that. And one of the things that I've learned to do is to pause, and when somebody is done talking, just still pause, just wait, give them your full attention and you'll find out they're not done talking, they're pausing....
Umar Hameed 5:29
Guilty here, like often times have already processed what I want to say and I step over their next sentence, which they pause for a couple of seconds to ponder it, so I'm going to take that and write that down. So let me ask you a question, Anthony, you've probably done more than one podcast interview.
Anthony Iannarino 5:44
I would say probably I'm going on maybe 200.
Umar Hameed 5:47
Right. So out of those 200, there were probably some people you had an interview with, where through this medium that we're using right now you felt this profound connection, we had the sense of, "Man, it's like I've known that person for a long time." So what do you think happens there? We're you married with him in a past life? What do you think is just the connection that you guys had in that moment? So articulate that for me but the interviews I'm sure were really great, but you felt, this is an interview and the other person you felt like there was a connection?
Anthony Iannarino 6:15
Yeah! Oh, so there's something about rapport building skills that some people just have fast rapport together. And it's just one of those things where there's some connection at a psychological level that doesn't it just defies description or it just defies any kind of understanding, it's just... I'll give you an example, so one of my good friends is Jeb Blount, his people reached out to me and asked me for content. And I saw a picture of him and I'm like, "I don't even like this guy's face, his hair, like I don't like anything about him, I don't like the name Sales Gravy, I don't like them asking me for this, and, and I said...
Umar Hameed 6:55
Right now dear listeners, I'm watching him, he has no here and he's holding that against Jeb.
Anthony Iannarino 7:01
That's true! He, he's, I said yes anyway cuz I was just being polite. And then I don't know, maybe six months later, he and I are on a phone together and it's like, I met my brother, like, it was like, I didn't know I have this brother and we immediately became the best friends, I mean, immediately. Why I have no idea why I mean, we come from very different backgrounds, I come from a single mom raised by a single mom, my mom was raising four kids, her mom was raising five kids, he comes from a middle-class family, both parents are lawyers. I mean, we, we have very, very different paths, but just instant rapport. I don't know how to explain it but I will tell you that there are some people who just have the ability to connect with people very, very fast, regardless of who they are, and it's magic when that happens. And you can do it over video and I mean, so you can have faster rapport but what I'll tell you what I'm hearing from salespeople, and I'm doing a virtual selling event on Tuesday, next week, that day that we're recording. And, and I'm getting emails from people already saying, it's just very, very hard for me to do this, you know, how do I keep them engaged and, and what I notice about them, when I get to watch them do this is they're not putting the same energy into the conversation. And they're not putting the same emotion into the conversation that they would face to face. And they really need to just raise that level of intensity and intention, when they're having these conversations because the medium, slightly less rich, because you're not in the same place together. But it's rich enough that you can do good work if you're intentional, if you're not intentional, then it's going to be really difficult.
Umar Hameed 8:48
So when I coach people, and you know, coach them to do video, sometimes what I'll do is I'll be behind the camera slightly higher up, and I tell them, "Don't look at the camera, look into my eyes and tell me...
Anthony Iannarino 9:01
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 9:02
...and it just warms up the entire presentation.
Anthony Iannarino 9:05
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 9:05
And people that have done that a lot can make the camera come alive but it's a hard trick to do.
Anthony Iannarino 9:11
Well, you could start by smiling, I mean, the...
Umar Hameed 9:14
Yeah.
Anthony Iannarino 9:14
...first thing you could do like you're, you're meeting a person and in because we've been using Zoom now for months, I think people have lowered the bar and it's like, "Oh, it's another video meeting." Well, it's whatever you make of it, right? So if you decide you're going to put some energy into it and show up smiling, you know, then the other person, I'm going to tell you like the first seven seconds, you should be smiling, like make sure that they know that you're excited to be there and that you're...
Umar Hameed 9:40
Absolutely!
Anthony Iannarino 9:41
...engaged.
Umar Hameed 9:41
And it turns out with neuroscience and they measuring in the milliseconds that we judge people and you gave a good example of Jeb looking at his pictures like, "That's a stupid guy, I don't want!" it's like literally under a secondary judge. So here's a trick for people that are doing live presentations. You've probably had a magical experience Anthony where you were like presenting live and it was just one of those magical presentations where you just felt connected with the audience. Your brain chemistry was different that day for whatever reason, the crowd you the venue, whatever was going on and one of the things we can do is go back to that memory, as soon as you go back to that memory, you reactivate the brain chemistry. So dear listeners, when you're doing one of these presentations, just go back to a particular time where you had a magical experience and see what you saw back then...
Anthony Iannarino 10:29
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 10:29
...hear what you hear back then, you start feeling that feeling and that feeling allows you to show up and you automatically smile so it's not a mechanical...
Anthony Iannarino 10:36
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 10:37
...I need to smile and I didn't need to have big energy. By the way, do you know, Bill Cates?
Anthony Iannarino 10:43
I don't know Bill, I know who he is, I mean, we've chatted, I think once or twice, but I don't really know him know him.
Umar Hameed 10:48
So I was doing my largest keynote and I reached out to him and says, "I got this keynote, is like 1000 some odd people, their largest one I've done is 300, so any advice? Should I be doing larger gestures? And he goes, "No, don't they got a camera on you? You're blown up there, just connect." And I had learned this trick when I was first learning to present on stage and it was a guy called Max and he said, "Okay, I want to volunteer, there were 300 speakers in the room to come up." And I said, "Pick me, pick me, and I go up on stage. He says, "Umar, I want you to do two, three minutes of your presentation that you do, and it goes to the audience, how's the presentation and everybody loved me, then it takes me aside and says, "Umar, I want you to ignore everybody in the room, and I want you to look on one side of the room, find one person and give them a minute and a half of presentation. And then pick somebody else on the other side of the room and give them a minute and a half, and to me this sounds like a dumb idea. And so I go ahead and do that, then he asked this audience of speakers, what was this version like versus the first and everyone said, "I thought he was talking to me...
Anthony Iannarino 11:45
Right.
Umar Hameed 11:46
...And it was because something changed within me, I connected heart to heart to one human being and I actually connected with everybody. And if you can do that, when you're doing one of these live presentations, it changes the entire experience.
Anthony Iannarino 11:58
Yeah. I've had, I've had, but the opposite is also true. I was in South Africa, and Johannesburg speaking to 600 people and the first row of chairs was maybe 15 to 20 feet away from the front of the stage....
Umar Hameed 12:16
Right.
Anthony Iannarino 12:16
...the lights were hung up above that line so I was literally looking into darkness. And...
Umar Hameed 12:23
That's a tough one.
Anthony Iannarino 12:24
...when I walked into the room, I told the organizer, I said, your your this is all wrong. And I said, "There's too much room between the stage and the first set of seats." And he said, "Well, next year, it's going to be bigger, and people are either going to be farther in the back." And I said, "No, it's not farther in the back, I need them further into the front." He said, "What can I do?"And I said, "Nothing now, like you can't do anything." So the first speaker that went on, literally walked off the stage to try to get to be able to see somebody's face, he couldn't see their face. And then I'm following him and he came up to me, he goes, "Don't walk off the stage, it's even worse, like you can't see anything." And I'm like, "Okay!" So last week, I did a keynote and the group that I was talking to had a bad bandwidth problem so they turned off all their videos. Now I'm doing a virtual keynote...
Umar Hameed 13:11
Right.
Anthony Iannarino 13:12
...through a black screen. I have a teleprompter so I can see like 30 faces, when I'm doing this, all the faces go away. And also, oh, they...
Umar Hameed 13:21
Inspired me Anthony. Anybody doing one of these things? Figure out who your favorite child is and have a picture of him.
Anthony Iannarino 13:27
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 13:28
Right above the camera at least you got love happening there.
Anthony Iannarino 13:30
Yeah! you I think it's really important to acknowledge that there's another person and I think I was in Toastmasters for four years and what you were taught was exactly, you know, the right thing to do. You give that individual your undivided attention in their fear focus for a few minutes and that energy gets transferred in a certain way, that it doesn't get when you're talking to a crowd. Like when you're talking to the crowd, and you've single in on somebody, it does make the whole audience feel like when you're saying these things, it's to them and for them, which which is powerful.
Umar Hameed 14:04
And something that's hard to do is when you're doing a live event, I do dumb things like sometimes I'll be sitting in the audience with people and I'll say something silly. Like, "I hope the speaker doesn't suck."
Anthony Iannarino 14:13
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 14:14
"Oh, my God, yeah!" Horrible speakers are like, so awful and then later on, they see me on stage and they're like, "You!" and you've built a friend in the audience and that helps. And the other one is just asking people, you know, "I'm going to be presenting on stage 45 minutes, is there something in particular I could help you with?" And just by connecting with people and having a few fans in the audience, plus you become more relevant, it makes your presentation more relevant to the folks in the audience, to do when you're doing something virtual.
Anthony Iannarino 14:45
It's hard to do when you're doing something virtual. We try to do a lot of prep work for that, I mean, we try to do enough discovery that we know what their their challenges are, so we can address them directly but I do think that this this whole virtual world is not going to go away completely, I do think I mean, I already have organizations that I work with and some that I own, we're having face to face meetings every day, I mean, there's, it's come back for a whole bunch of people, social distancing, wearing masks, you know, and that kind of thing. But ultimately, if if I had to fly to New York to have a discovery meeting with a large client, not a problem, I'm happy to do that but at some point, both sides, us and the client is going to say, we need a 20-minute meeting, you don't have to fly to New York to do this, let's just jump on Google Meet or have a Zoom meeting or whatever, whatever their flavor is because you don't have to fly all the way here, we need to 20 minutes, we can solve this right now. And some of the sales process is going to change to video because listen, I'm a phone guy, I'm a phone first guy, but I will tell you, the phone is not as rich as a video meeting so now I'm getting audio and I'm getting the visual cues. So the best, the highest richest medium for us is face to face but below that is this one, there's nothing between this one and that one, that's, that's near as good, so I like the phone but look people are, they're going to prefer video because I get to see you more talking to each other like you and I just met today and we're looking at each other face...
Umar Hameed 16:17
Yeah.
Anthony Iannarino 16:17
...while we do this, it's so much better.
Umar Hameed 16:19
So I happened to be a really good hypnotist and so I work with people as salespeople, especially with different techniques. And back in the day when it was just the phone, sometimes the other person would fall asleep and I wouldn't know it because I think at least when I see on video, it's like they're snoring like I can see them like nodding off. And so...
Anthony Iannarino 16:37
I was starting to feel a little woozy as you were talking to me, I wasn't sure that was you
Umar Hameed 16:43
know, that's, that's the secret. So here is, as we move forward, I think there's a efficiency, and there's also the ability to be more international in scope. And I think one of the things it does is it makes us richer as presenters because when you're presenting in different lands, you're talking to different people, part of me is thinking, you know, how do I take my business to touch more people and embrace this new technology, and have those one on one meetings, because sometimes when we're meeting with people in that way, especially in the work I do, where we're looking at, you know, what blocks them from executing, people are opening up in terms of you know, this happened to me that it's here to stay and I think it will be a great way to interact with the world that we live in right now.
Anthony Iannarino 17:30
I think there's the this will continue to evolve so technology tends to evolve rather quickly right now. And I think eventually it's going to be a hologram...
Umar Hameed 17:40
Yes.
Anthony Iannarino 17:41
...people are already doing holograms. And and I think that the, the media will get richer, and we'll find a way to to be stable, feel like you're in the room. Because we're we're I mean, we're working hard on that in the virtual reality thing right now and but but it's going to continue to change to where it will feel like we're together. And that's what we're trying to do here anyway, right?
Umar Hameed 18:04
Yeah. When we first started this conversation, the first thought that came into mind was back in yesteryear, like the 1800s, people had pen pals,
Anthony Iannarino 18:13
Right.
Umar Hameed 18:14
And they develop these intimate relationships through the written word and back then to get a letter to England might have taken like months to get it there...
Anthony Iannarino 18:23
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 18:23
...to read it, write a response and then you get the response back and people build relationships. And now we have this instant connection, I guess the trick is going to be is, how do we maintain our humanity and that connection and not let the technology seduce or dilute that because I think there's a, there's an opportunity for that to happen.
Anthony Iannarino 18:43
Yeah. I'm, I'm opposed to what I would call the Silicon Valley ethos, so..
Umar Hameed 18:49
Which is?
Anthony Iannarino 18:49
...which is reduce everything to efficiency, reduce every single thing to efficiency, don't send an email, automate all your emails and just let those things run, try to get technology to solve some sort of a problem for you, rather than having a conversation with the human being. So the the Silicon Valley ethos is technology can make everyone more efficient. But in human interactions and human relationships, you don't want to be efficient, you want to be incredibly inefficient. And it's because you have to have a conversation that is effective, which means it's value creating for the other person and it allows you to create intimacy. Look, anybody can automate anything like you can buy something from amazon.com but it's not as, as, as interesting as, you know, I had a bookstore here in Columbus where Brian and Jane owns a small bookstore, they would go out and see something and they would call me when they got back and said, you know, "We just bought you have a copy of Richard Nixon's autobiography first edition signed...
Anthony Iannarino 19:54
Wow!
Anthony Iannarino 19:54
...how much am I paying for that? And they're like, $800, but he's not making anymore signed copies of this book so it's kind of continue to be valuable. And but there's somebody actually that knows me in this intimate and understands that I'm interested in something and they're doing something because we have the intimacy, Silicon Valley is removing intimacy, they're removing intimacy and I think that intimacy is, is what makes us human. like, I know you, you know me, yeah, and I'm, I think I'm more interested in human effectiveness with other humans than I am turning it into a technology.
Umar Hameed 20:33
So there's two parts of that equation, right? So when I coach people, we have, you know, coming to the office, we have coaching sessions, and they're great. And then once in a while, maybe every two months, I'll invite them on a hike and they won't be an agenda on the hike but something about walking in nature, and not having an agenda. Lets things bubble up like, "Oh, this would be interesting to play with." So 100% agree there but I think this is not going away this medium of video conferencing and augmented reality and virtual reality and holograms so we need to make a concerted effort to keep that connection. So I was working with a client the other day, and she was telling me that it's difficult for her to experience love because of her experiences, and her stepfather has not been kind to her, but her mom and her brother have, and I said, "Okay, today I want you to do something that makes them feel love for your mom and your brother," easy to do, "Now, for your dad, I want you to think about one thing you value in him and just share that, not love but just instead of you know, I appreciate you," who cares, it's, so for you Anthony, I don't know you, have seen you over the internet and we have some mutual friends in common but what comes across right now is your thoughtfulness, like you think about what you're saying, and you mean what you say, is a rare commodity and I appreciate that. And that truth that I said to you resonates in a different way, rather than, "Hey, we're having an interview, let's talk about that." I think we need to build a set of purposeful mechanisms to maintain that human connection to maximize this medium I think.
Anthony Iannarino 22:08
I do too. And I think that that's the trick and I'm, I describe it as intentionality and energy in the training that we do just because you have to really be where you are. And you and I are not in the same room but feels like we are because you're you're looking at me and I'm looking at you, and I can see personal things behind you, including the Buddha, and a painting and you can see a painting behind me, and so we sort of have...
Umar Hameed 22:35
Some books, right?
Anthony Iannarino 22:35
...it is, it's Christopher Hitchens, Hitchens is my, just one of my favorite people so I have him looking over my shoulder while I write to remind me to tell the truth, even if it's uncomfortable...
Umar Hameed 22:50
I want to point out is because the paintings there, and it's got, it's illuminated, there's a halo effect on your head, from that, which is not a bad thing.
Anthony Iannarino 22:59
I don't know if I have a halo. I'm gonna be a little bit incredulous about that but the light might make you think that, but i you're, you're on the same page on me on this one, I think that there has to be an intentionality and an energy and a drive to say, this is about intimacy and it means listening to the other person and caring about what they're saying, and paying attention to it, and getting rid of the distractions and don't don't allow anything to sort of break that, while you're with that individual. And you're with them for a short time and I've noticed some of these Zoom meetings have been, you know, we do when we do a training, it's four hours, that's the longest meeting, but you know, these things that 20 minutes, you can give it a lot of intensity, and you can give somebody your focus 45 is a little harder, you start getting into longer meetings, it's very very hard to maintain. So you do have to really work at this in my opinion. I mean, you have to work at being good at this.
Umar Hameed 23:55
Brilliant! So if you could give three tips to people when they're doing Zoom presentations that would make it more real and more a better experience for the viewers, what would they be?
Anthony Iannarino 24:07
Yeah. From from a sales call perspective or from a presentation perspective?
Umar Hameed 24:13
To sales call first and then presentation second.
Anthony Iannarino 24:16
Okay. For the sales call, you should really get yourself into state, and I know that this is something that you understand very well and probably teach. You want to get yourself into the state to say, "I'm meeting this person, maybe for the first time, maybe it's a follow up meeting, and I need them to feel me showing up in that room with the energy to serve them. I need them to feel that so you got to get yourself in that state first and foremost. The second thing is I would tell you absolutely smile this the minute you turn on the camera, you should be smiling and if you smile, then they're going to feel a very different thing than if they see you fumbling around trying to get things set up be set up already have that. The other thing I'll tell you from a sales call, I've watched some of these, your background has to look better, like your background, if you have a cluttered, messy background, and your cameras off to the side, and I'm looking at the side of your face and your audio is not good, you're trying to make a sale and you're trying to connect and you're trying to create a preference to work with you, you, you have to be very, very professional about how you use these tools now. So I would tell you, you have to practice with the tools you should...
Umar Hameed 25:27
Let me pause you right there just for a second.
Anthony Iannarino 25:28
Yeah. Go ahead.
Umar Hameed 25:28
I think it's really important what you said, like if you get the right background, the right lighting the right sound, you gain no brownie points, but anything is amiss, it counts as negative immediately and they chew on that.
Anthony Iannarino 25:43
And again, to what you said, how many milliseconds before they're making a judgement, the subconscious mind doesn't, I mean, the subconscious mind works without your conscious mind being aware of anything, so you, you don't know that you're judging people this fast but your subconscious has already made a whole bunch of decisions. Back to my friend, Jeb Blount, like I made a bunch of decisions about him and not having ever met him, just because the subconscious reacted to something that's happening to you when you're sitting across from someone.
Umar Hameed 26:13
And before we go to number two, let me just point out on your background, number one, you've got an interesting piece of artwork that the face is hidden, and that automatically creates curiosity, which is a good thing. The second thing is you've got a door with a nice brass handle, and that's a really good metaphor for you know, I'm going to open the doors to enlightenment for you. And then you've got this halo effect, the whole thing is working really well. So what's number two?
Anthony Iannarino 26:35
Number two, let's talk about if you present, no, if you have to present as a presenter on this medium, I'm going to tell you, maybe the opposite of what you got on that stage, I think you do have to be bigger, I think you do have to have much more energy and I do think that you have to be very, very intentional in using language in a right way so that you can get that through, it's harder to get it through the video medium. And I'll just tell you what my opinion is on this, there's lean forward content, and there's lean back content. Okay, if you're lean back content, you lose people, you you will lose them so you have to be lean forward, like what I'm saying, is enough to cause you some anticipation to wonder what comes next? And what is he going to say after this? And then what am I supposed to do with this thing that he just said? How am I supposed to interpret this? You want them leaning forward. And I think as a presenter, if you can get people to lean forward, you've won the day, I mean there's no doubt it...
Umar Hameed 27:35
Absolutely!
Anthony Iannarino 27:36
...if you get them to lean back, then it's just like, I'm not, I'm a passenger, I'm not...
Umar Hameed 27:42
What I'm showing you here that the audio folks can't hear is I'm leaning back and now I'm folding my arms and in the audience. If you get that that's one person's okay but if you start getting a lot of people, that's not happy.
Anthony Iannarino 27:53
Yeah. I think that those are the kinds of things that people need to start thinking about, because the medium is powerful, we are going to use it, I mean, I'm going to tell you, my guess is, well, there's going to be more people who will invest in spending time with you on this medium because it's it's easy to do.
Umar Hameed 28:14
Brilliant. And I think setting intent on what you want to accomplish is huge and sometimes my intent is, for people in the audience to, when they're talking to their spouse, "Oh, my God, there was a speaker!" and he said that, "Ta da da da da." And if we can create that kind of passion, that would be a win for me.
Anthony Iannarino 28:31
Yeah. And it's a, it's a, it's a great game to play but you really I mean, I think the more you decide in whether you're, you're speaking to an individual or a group of individuals in a sales call or a presentation, I just always think it's my job to serve them, you know, so I have to give them something that they can value enough that they say, "I can leave here knowing something I didn't know, seeing something I didn't see, having a competency that I didn't know was available to me," you know, I want them to leave with something.
Umar Hameed 29:02
Brilliant! Anthony, I'm leaving with a bunch of insights on how to do better so thank you so much for that, I really appreciate your time.
Anthony Iannarino 29:11
Thanks for having me on. Good to meet you.
Umar Hameed 29:18
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