Before I started coaching sales teams to set more sales appointments and discovery calls, and wrote three books on the topic (search "Scott Channell" on Amazon) I actually did it. Set 2,000+ C-Level meetings in diverse industries. Prioritizing targets, a solid call/outreach process and knowing how to craft responsive sales scripts, phone scripts and cold emails are key.
Many companies, once they started booking more meetings have engaged me to learn how to conduct those meetings, so that more go deeper into the pipeline toward a close. If your sales team has these challenges contact me re coaching, training and speaking. Reach me at 978-296-2700.
b2b sales acceleration, sales training, sales development, sales leadership, turnarounds, coaching for peak sales performance, b2b business development specialist
[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]
Umar Hameed 0:01
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone. My name is Umar Hameed, I'm your host on the No Limits Selling podcast where industry leaders share their tips, strategies, and advice on how you can become better, stronger, faster. Just before we get started, I've got a question for you. Do you have a negative voice inside your head? We all do, right? I'm gonna help you remove that voice and under 30 days guaranteed not only remove it but transform it. So instead of the voice that sabotages you, there's one that propels you too much higher levels of performance and success. There's a link in the show notes. Click on it to find out more. All right, let's get started.
Umar Hameed 0:41
Today, I'm privileged to have Scott Channell joining me today he's written a book, you know how to get appointments. And one of the hardest things for a lot of salespeople is getting an appointment with someone that's got money, someone who's got need, and someone that wants to do something right away. Scott, welcome to the program.
Scott Channell 1:00
Happy to be here, Umar, thanks for asking me.
Umar Hameed 1:03
So Scott, in 90 seconds when you tell us who you are and what you do.
Scott Channell 1:07
Yeah, well, essentially what I do, and it totally by accident was never my live stream. But I help companies to secure first meetings and discovery calls with strangers and typically larger ticket multi step sales process, but not always. And the key is that the sales process starts with a meeting or a discovery call in the margins on the sale of sufficient so that the prospecting effort makes economic sense. And common scenarios are companies that need to scale faster, then maybe their current marketing methods can deliver or you have founders of companies that get to a certain point based upon their personal networks. But now they need to reach out to strangers and get a foothold. And they really don't know how to do that. Or people that need just to open up a new vertical or upgrade to a better class of prospects. So going directly to those companies that can afford them and write to the decision maker and securing that first meeting or discovery call is is key to their growth.
Umar Hameed 2:15
Brilliant, because, you know, I hear a lot of salespeople whine, you know, if I can just get in front of decision makers, I close like crazy, but I just can't get enough of those first appointments. And you know, hey, that's called selling. And that's the first step to the sale.
Scott Channell 2:31
Yeah, absolutely correct. I mean, probably 95% of the people who call me say exactly the same thing. You're right.
Umar Hameed 2:37
So what prompted you to write the book?
Scott Channell 2:42
Well, the most recent book, the sales script book I wrote, because, you know, most people who call me who need more appointments, the first thing they say to me is we need a script, if only we had a script. Now, I gotta tell you, that is not what they need. Okay, you know, if they want more meetings and more discovery calls, the script is only about 25% of the reason or part of the bigger plan as to how they're going to get there. But that's what they think they need. So my first book was entitled Setting Sales Appointments, which went through the whole process of selling, but because people just focused on that issue up front on scripting, I thought I would break out the scripting part of the first book expand upon it, and really break down the you know, what you say to gatekeepers, what you say when the decision maker picks up the phone, the voicemail and so forth, to to meet that need that so many people ask me for, even though I want to say it's not the thing they should be asking me, but it is the thing they they start with.
Umar Hameed 3:50
And sometimes I would think it's more like a health club membership, just the thought of having the script is enough. And a lot of times they won't actually use it, because the issue was never the script. It's the fear that comes up into going to the great unknown.
Scott Channell 4:02
Actually, that is true. A lot of people freeze at anything that's new, calling people and actually let too many things go through their head Rijn in a really when you call. And when I work with companies or person that I train, is we start with the basics. And I really encourage them, get that get right on the basics. And then once you understand the principles in play, you'll know how to respond to anything that comes up. You know, sometimes I see companies that they want people to memorize responses to 50 questions or 50 scenarios and that's the wrong approach and people just freeze is really in any company I deal with. Typically this this fewer than eight or nine very common scenarios that you really need to master and everything flows from that.
Umar Hameed 4:53
You know, I'm really convinced that you know, at get mo instead of like waterboarding and doing this deprivation if they just got them to make cold calls them and said, Okay, okay, I gave up. Here's what I've been loving this. So, Scott, tell me about your first sales job.
Scott Channell 5:07
It's great. So my first sales job, it was actually kind of interesting. It's when I was a teenager before I had a license. And I used to work on a swimming pool crew. And I get the idea because I saw people who could work on pools making a lot of money, that I would start pitching pool service dogs. So before I had a car, after I had a license, I was out there selling pool jobs. And my mother used to drive me to the gigs that I would sell, and I would do the job and she would pick me up. And then throughout school, during the summer and on when it was warm, I would build in service swimming pools, and it kind of interesting, I'd always start Umar working for someone else, always. And then halfway through the summer, I would quit usually in an inglorious manner. And then I would put ahead in the paper, and, and then go out and pitch my own work, say, Hey, I can make more money in a weekend and I can work and for for someone else, you know, for a month, you know, so why not do it? And so that actually is what started me in sales.
Umar Hameed 6:15
Tell me about the best deal you ever closed?
Scott Channell 6:18
Well, you know, I don't know if this was the best deal from a monetary point of view. But I'll tell you, my, my favorite gig was actually a company in the Midwest did that for two and a half years, every single month, they would fly me out there to train all their new salespeople. And during the period I was there, they grew from 15 million to 90 million now. Not because of me necessarily, but they just had a great company and a great culture. I just love the culture. I love the people. I loved how they treated people, really smart selling really collaborative. And really probably, probably my favorite, favorite gig in my career.
Umar Hameed 6:58
And we've all had sales managers. Is there one that stands out?
Scott Channell 7:01
Umar Hameed 7:03
And if they do, what's the attribute they had that really stays with you?
Scott Channell 7:07
Absolutely. He easy case, Michael Tim's one of my very rare regular paycheck jobs in my life, actually was my first appointment setting job in the mid 1990s. And when he was so supportive, encouraging, he really knew how to motivate people. And then whenever I would book a meeting or set an appointment, he would stand on a chair in the middle of the room and clap. And he stood in that chair a lot. That's pretty cool, really hard for those claps. And what made him good was he was a very strong sales manager, he knew sales, he knew what drove sales, he would support the right thing. Less competent and knowledgeable managers just kind of go with the flow, or they're very willing to just do what the owner the CEO wants. But Michael would advocate for what was right. You just wanted to climb, climb mountains for that guy. And in got fantastic results with him.
Umar Hameed 8:04
So just kind of dig a little deeper. So are you saying that, you know, he walked his talk? He had integrity. And he also had a ton of support for his team members.
Scott Channell 8:13
Yeah, he just he just you will was very supportive of his team members. And you know, you know, was willing to do was right. And it just motivated you that you were going to have that support.
Umar Hameed 8:23
So what happened when you know, I'm sure you screwed up once in a while? How did you tackle that when something was going wrong? How did he bring his leadership in to get people to write the ship?
Scott Channell 8:33
Well, first of all in and that is really a great point. Because what good sales managers understand is that things aren't not right from the get go. And that people do make mistakes, and they do have to learn. So rather than playing gotcha, I think, frankly, less competent sales managers love to play gotcha is they would learn things that didn't turn out the way we had hoped or as learning experiences, and discuss it and talk about options, and how to do it next time. And it was just a great system. But he didn't play gotcha. And knew that people were going to make mistakes and have to learn things as they go along. And it was just part of the normal process. It wasn't treated as if you had done anything wrong.
Umar Hameed 9:18
Brilliant. So tell me about a come to Jesus moment where things were going sideways, and you had to figure things out and you know, change the direction.
Scott Channell 9:26
Well, not so sure if it's come to Jesus in the sense of change direction. But one of the things I was thinking of was very early in my career, I remember a meeting I took with a decision maker of a company. And I remember after making my pitch and I forget what the proposal was or anything but he looked at me and he says Scott, he says, If this isn't worth $15,000 it's not worth my time. And I remember thinking about that it hit me like a ton of bricks because you're you're trying so hard to create value and so forth. That it really made me understand that people do have money they expect to spend it in that low pricing doesn't necessarily help you with higher quality clients, you know, they expect to pay for expertise. And if you're too cheap, you're really not taking seriously. So that was, that was a major moment in my sales career.
Umar Hameed 10:21
Yeah, we all have those defining moments. So tell me about a deal that you almost lost and what you did say that.
Scott Channell 10:28
Okay, this was great, great. I like this story. So great opportunity in the story was a very large company that had hundreds of independently managed offices around the country. I call, I get a call from them. And they say, hey, look at you know, we've got a branch that for years was among our lowest when it came to our worst performers. When it came to appointment setting closing an average account. In the year they went to the top of the heap, they went to the very top of hundreds of these offices. And we called them and said, What the heck you doing down there? And they said, Hey, in the old days, Umar, I used to sell when people bought CDs, I used to sell this thing called the seminar in a box. Okay. I like 20 hours of tutorials on what I teach. So they had bought that. And using those tutorials in my first book that had gone from the bottom of the heap in terms of prospecting productivity to the top for this very large company. And after making a proposal, the the person was making a decision, said, Well, I want references and I said, Oh, man and Umar I and I not only wanted this gig, okay, but I think at the time, I really needed this gig.
Umar Hameed 11:44
Scott Channell 11:44
So I was like, oh, what do I do, if I just do what they say? I know, that's never the real issue. Because people who know what they want, do not ask for references. Anyone who asked for references are people who are clueless as to what they want. Or they're middle manager, and they just have to paper a file. Alright, so I knew this guy wasn't looking to paper a file. So I figured a he that doesn't know what he wants, he's just grinded me on price. So rather than go down that road, which I knew would probably lead to me maybe losing the gig, or certainly, you know, refusing it based on price, I wrote an email, I got really hard, okay, I wrote an email that said, hey, look at if the results I got with with your office, and my books, and my recordings, and all my articles, and you discussions with me aren't enough for you to have that level of confidence with me. I think we're not a match. And you know, talking to people who you know, are going to say I'm great anyway, who would not in your industry and not your situation, is not going to resolve whatever issues there I read your mind. So you know, what, why don't we just part friends. And then, and I, oh, man, I thought real hard before I sent that email. But I sent it. I heard nothing for 10 days. And then,
Umar Hameed 13:02
Scott Channell 13:02
I got a panicked phone call from this guy from the golf course, he'd never seen my email. And when he realized I had decided to walk, he panicked and called me immediately came to terms, it was a great, great, great gig. And, you know, they've been long term clients ever since. But, you know, I think the lesson there is, you know, you have to understand the sales process and where it can go wrong. And you have to know what the right thing is to do. You have to know what the where the probabilities are, I think is a way to say it in at times, you have to be willing to walk away in order to get the deal.
Umar Hameed 13:43
Brilliant. And that's a scary thing to do for a lot of people.
Scott Channell 13:46
Yes, yeah. And I think that's part of why you really have to be schooled in the craft of sales, because it really is, I think, anyway, it's the art of probability in the more school you are on the craft of sales. And what could lead to a sale or where sales typically get derailed, then the better decisions you can make about how to keep things on track.
Umar Hameed 14:10
So Scott, A, you've gotten more than 2000 C level appointments. So how do you go from like zero to 2000?
Scott Channell 14:17
Total accident, the way that it started, was my first business out of school was I had a marketing agency that really focused on professional services, marketing, mostly lawyers, accountants, selling intangibles, and I did all sorts of the normal things you do in a marketing agency. So it was yellow pages, it was direct mail, it was TV commercials. And then by accident, I was very good at writing response stuff, whether it be commercials or ads. And I don't I forget how it happened. But someone asked me to write scripts and I work with a telemarketing team that was booking appointments for home heating oil, if you can believe it, and did that gig it worked out extraordinarily well. And they were booking more home heating appointments in the slow time of year than they used to in the busy time of year. And then I saw an ad in the globe for a company that sold nationally a boutique firm, in an industry dominated by giants. And they said when we can get in the door, we can sell, they had six national salespeople on target market companies with at least 1000 employees, they had to enter it executive VP or CEO level, they hired me. And that was really where I cut my chops in appointment setting and created the bones of the system that I still use today. So I booked 500 meetings, crack the code, they're booked 500 meetings at that level, and then for years, gigged it around New England calling companies practice what I preach at you have salespeople do set appointments, you want to improve your system. And then I would go either either train or set up the program to do the calling. And then at some point decided, well, if I want to be something other than a regional Schleper, I need to write a book. So I wrote the first book in oh four setting sales appointments, which outlined the whole process. And that just opened up a whole new world of exposure to companies and scenarios. And is pretty much all I've done for the last 20 23 years or something.
Umar Hameed 16:36
So I'm going to be embarking on a campaign to reach out to 200 companies this quarter. So I can identify the VP of sales. And so I can get the target list together of people within these companies. So I'll probably have a list of 400 people, once I've got the list, I need to find telephone number. So walk me through the process. Once I've got the names of the people through LinkedIn, let's say, how does one roll this thing out?
Scott Channell 17:05
Well, the keys are that, you know, you're right about hitting the right audience. But let's in this is actually a major mistake that people make. Because they say well, I've got a decent list and they start there. But one of the biggest mistakes that people make Umar is say, although they most of the time think they have the best list that's going to be most responsive. Usually they're not correct, to tell you the truth. So the issue is, you know, really making sure that you have profiled your most responsive buyers so that people who are most likely so that when you you do select those 200 or 400, issue picot, you truly know that those are the best 200, or the best 400, the highest probability most responsive targets that you have, you need to be set up for efficiency. So you need some type of contact manager so that you can work efficiently. Anybody who's working off Excel spreadsheets, or paper systems, you might as well just forget it, you have absolutely no chance of success. So you have to be able to work efficiently through that list. And then you need to engineer This is kind of interesting, you don't hear this often. But bumping into people at the right time is actually a big part of why people are successful, you need to move efficiently through that group. Because in your list of 200 or 400, as you put it, you know, this probably only, you know about 15 or 18% of them are actually in buying mode. So you need to work through that group efficiently. So you can bump into those who are in buying mode at the right time. And then as I say, when you bump into people at the right time, don't screw it up, meaning you have to have something to say, so that they could say, Oh, wait a minute, this person doesn't sound like a time waster. They sound credible. Sounds like I get some value, hey, even if I don't hire them, or speak to them again, you know, I should spend some time I'll meet with them or let's set up a discovery call.
Umar Hameed 19:14
So what are your thoughts on platforms like phone burner where you can actually it queues up the calls for you leaves automated messages if you need to, but it allows you to quickly move through the list. So it's not so much a CRM as it is a tool to help you call more effectively.
Scott Channell 19:31
Well, you always have to start with the basics. I think one of the drawbacks is that people immediately think that if it's faster if it's easier, that somehow that's going to solve their problems. And you know, you can't pour gas on a fire that isn't already lit. Alright. So if you have a lousy list, if you're not interacting with them in an efficient manner if your scripting stinks, and you're totally unprepared you know, the fact that you use some technology tool that is going to allow you to call the unqualified faster is not going to help you. So before you try to go for speed or use these technology tools, you really have to make sure that you have the basics in place first, in, frankly, for most of the work that I do, which is usually higher level stuff. And I wouldn't say that those tools necessarily are being used for effectiveness. And I think if you have the phone and basic email systems, more times than not basic tools use effectively is going to get you where you want to go. And I find many times, you know, the gadgets, and what's new on the block is really more of a distraction than a key to success.
Umar Hameed 20:53
Good advice. So you know, the the selling climate has changed, and a lot of people like cold calling stead and you know, getting someone on the phone is more challenging. So what are your thoughts about that?
Scott Channell 21:02
Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting is that, from my perspective, I mean, I think, obviously, cold calling is not dead. Because many people do it, I work in many industries, where the main way of getting new clients is by reaching out and securing that first appointment. And it's a tool, Umar, like any other marketing tool, you know, marketing, not every marketing tool is suitable for every situation, every industry or every company, and you need to select the right tools, and then use them correctly. Okay, in order to get the result you seek. So maybe cold calling or cold emailing or reaching out to strangers, is not the most effective tool for you. Okay, cool. And again, no problem with that. But it's incorrect to say that it that it's dead, because a lot of people are using it.
Umar Hameed 21:55
Yeah, and I know some folks out there that are closing large accounts. And I don't have the quote, right. But this was from like, a long time ago, somebody had said, you know, hey, the greatest bargain in America is putting a dime in a call phone and calling anybody and now calling is actually free. So it doesn't cost you a dime.
Scott Channell 22:13
Yeah, you know, and if I can go back to your original question, you're talking about what is changed? You know, actually, I think that's a major strategical mistake that people make. Because although technology have changed in the selling environment, or the prospecting environment has changed a lot in the last 20 years, the drivers of what works has not changed. I mean, calling the right list is not changed, you know, interacting with high probability targets, has not changed. messaging that conveys a reason to meet, the drivers of that has not changed. And, you know, so we, it's not so much that you're doing things differently in terms of picking lists and interacting with so forth. But I think what's happened because of the competitive sales environment, you have to do those things even better. So it's not that you're doing it differently. But you have to be even better at picking lists, knowing how to interact effectively and efficiently with a group, knowing how to craft messaging. And I think there's less room for waste and inefficiency than there was today. But I think the drivers of what gets results have remained remarkably similar.
Umar Hameed 23:31
So you know, messaging is critically important, because oftentimes, you know, we know what's important to us, but our customers don't care. So how do you craft the messaging that gets people to stop their thought of I want to get this person off the phone and actually engage with you?
Scott Channell 23:48
Umar Hameed 23:48
To see if they should engage you.
Scott Channell 23:51
You know, what can I repeat for emphasis, something you just said, our customers don't care. Okay. They don't care. So when you're crafting a message, there's a structure that plays in Peoria? I guess I'll say it, and that once you identify a decision maker within a company, that could be great account, you know, what do they need to know? Now this is a big factor that I think many people don't get right, is that you're actually speaking to two groups of people. You're talking to the larger group of people who no matter what you say, or how you say it, or how friendly you are, they're going to say no. And then you speaking to a group of people. I think it's about 15 or 18% of that good group that you call to use your previous example, who if they heard the right things would be inclined to go to the next step with you or have a conversation. So you really need to think only of those people that have a need that you can fulfill in totally 100% focused on that. A lot of people make the mistake when they hear no, no no, is they start to watered down their messaging to have more comfortable conversations with people who are never going to buy from them. And I think that's ridiculous. You really need to stay locked solid on your messaging. So that when you speak, you can say, hey, if this was a person that had a need I could fulfill and they are dissatisfied with their current situation, if they're looking for options, I need to say, am I saying the things that would enable them to choke on I'm all set and go, Ah, maybe I should listen this guy a little bit more, and then say, Sure, I'll meet. And that's really what you're going for. Would you like me to share the structure of a pitch and give you a little sample?
Umar Hameed 25:45
You just before you do that, I just want to share something, a guy called Gira Maxwell said, this pretty brilliant thing. And it was, you know, if your marketing does not have the ability to offend, it does not have the ability to convince and I guess what he was saying was you need to be tight on your messaging. And if you get people to opt out of your offering, That's way better than watering it down. So you do appeal to no one.
Scott Channell 26:08
It's absolutely true. And you know, what, those who are most effective at this and getting the most yeses, also get the most no's. So you, you have to when you're really good at something you call a group, people who have a need are going to recognize your message and say, hey, I want it you're going to get your yeses. But at the same time, when you're very clear and concise about what you do, and what you offer, people are going to get it and say Nope, don't need it waste my time your mother was army boots. Get lost. And same message different different audience totally different, different results.
Umar Hameed 26:46
Brilliant. So give me the structure that is most effective at getting the information.
Scott Channell 26:51
Yeah. So you know, very basic, you know, if you you call someone, what you don't want to do is you don't want to sound like a time waster or, or you know, the one of the many people who are not skilled at this and waste people's time. So what do they need to know they need to know who you who you are, where you're calling from, why you're credible, why you're more credible than than anybody they could find in a Google search, what they might get from you and what they will get at a meeting or discovery call that's worth their time, even if they don't hire you, or talk to you again. So basically, the script goes something like, Hey, hi, this is Scott from Mega industries, we supplied red widgets. 623 companies, including impressive company A well known Company B have selected us for widgets supply, is they get mega benefit, a desired benefit be in very competitive pricing, love to introduce ourselves share how other companies have improved their production process, reduced rejects, would you have some time in the next week or two? Boom? And then you do the hardest thing in the world for a salesperson to do? Shut up. And I want you to notice Umar, that I did not start with? How are you? Have you got a minute I know you're busy. I'll be brief. That is absolutely ridiculous. I know, many people believe it and preach in it. But I think it's nuts to say that, you know, the top performers, get to the point in the first few seconds of an interaction are really the most important and to use it up in communicate, absolutely nothing of value to a buyer is just nuts to me. And in fact, my personal opinion is those that say those kinds of things are the biggest time wasters of all. So don't be afraid to be direct, very professional, give people the ability to say yes or no, that respects people. And I have the saying, you know what, if you sound like a time waster and you say the things that people who waste the time to waste people's time, say, they're going to lump you in with the idiot. So don't make it easy for him to lump you in with the idiots.
Umar Hameed 29:07
He goes back to that movie, Jerry Maguire where she goes, You had me at hello. And so get to the point and add value immediately. And if it's of interest, they're going to say let's talk if it's not, they're going to say thanks, goodbye. And you save everybody grief, including yourself.
Scott Channell 29:19
Umar Hameed 29:21
So there's a ton of information that you've got, what we're going to do is give out your website and a place that can go see a webinar to get like a deep dive into this subject and really know your mastery. But before we go there, what's something you know, now that you wish you knew 10 years ago?
Scott Channell 29:36
Boy, you know, I'm going to answer it two ways. So the first thing I wish I recognized is that working longer hours really doesn't matter. I think, you know, if you're working more than 50 hours a week or so you're doing something wrong. And you really have to work smarter and you need to know the strategies that convert and you need to know how to leverage your time so more effort does it necessarily the best thing to do. And the other thing, which I think is really important is, you know, I know a lot of people like to go for, you know, the newest gadget or the strategy to flavor the month and so forth. But I gotta tell you working with a lot of companies, the vast majority of time, what contributes to a quantum leap in productivity is not all the fancy new stuff. But it's going back to basics. And when people get the basics, right, if you do the basics consistently, most of the time, you can run circles around your competition. So those would be the two things I wish I had known sooner.
Umar Hameed 30:40
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. I think a lot of times people give up on the basics. It's like, either I know them already. Or B try them for a little while and then give up too soon, and try something new and fancy. And if you look at any sports team anywhere in the world, if they're not doing things, right, the new manager comes in. And the first thing they say is, we're going back to basics.
Scott Channell 31:00
Yeah, it works. You gotta you, everything worthwhile is built on a strong foundation. And if you don't have your basics, right, I don't care what fancy stuff for newest technology, or gadget to the month or flavor of the month, you add on top of it, you're not going anywhere.
Umar Hameed 31:17
So if there was one piece of advice, you could give a B level salesperson that hasn't gone into the A column yet, what would that piece of advice be?
Scott Channell 31:26
Well, two things come to my mind, first of all, is to identify top performers and do what they do. Period. Stop the endless search for something you like and something that you feel comfortable with. And whatever, whatever you do, do not do what all the people around you are doing. Because the top performers do do things differently. And if you just drop the endless search for something that you like, or that you feel comfortable with, or you think will work and just ruthlessly, attach yourself to top performers, study them in do what they do, you're going to vote yourself to the top very quickly. And the other thing I would say to people the other piece of advice, which is kind of interesting, but you know, when in doubt, Umar speaking to clear, firm voice, because most people will just assume you know what you're talking about.
Umar Hameed 32:18
Brilliant. So is there a must read book that you'd recommend to salespeople?
Scott Channell 32:23
Well, I always you know, it's not necessarily a sales book, but influenced by Robert shell Dini, I think is a fantastic book in terms of understanding the thought process of how people make selections. In myself. I love anything by Neil Rackham on sales. time tested still great today, in any book, from somebody that's actually done, what they're teaching, whether it be you know, consulting, or selling or building a company, I think that's the stuff that you want to read.
Umar Hameed 32:52
Thanks so much for spending time with us today, Scott. So Scott, how can people access one of your webinars to really understand how to get appointments more deeply, and also engage you as as a coach and a mentor?
Scott Channell 33:05
You know, really just go to scottchannell.com. S-c-o-t-t-c-h-a-n-n-e-l-l.com. Two T's two N's two L's and there's a ton of free stuff there. There's a free trial on a very comprehensive master course is downloads more audio than you know you want to listen to, and obviously links to the books on Amazon and so forth. So tons of free stuff there. And I would start there and if they have a question, obviously can can reach out to me from there.
Umar Hameed 33:37
Scott, thanks so much and have a really productive rest of the day.
Scott Channell 33:41
Appreciate you thinking of me, Umar.
Umar Hameed 33:47
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