October 15

Rhonda Overby CEO & Board Director Of Camera Ready

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Having long been deemed an “impact player”, Rhonda Overby takes a vested interest in achieving the “next level” and beyond. She and the Camera-Ready team EXPAND BRANDS via comprehensive Marketing, Public Relations, and Media Production services.

They reach target audiences via strategic campaigns online, on mobile, on TV, on radio, in print and in-person.

Expertise also includes Crisis Media, Media Training, Speech Writing, Media Buying, Design, Research, and Printing. ...achieving results on-time, on-budget, on point. 

Connect With Rhonda:

[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]

Umar Hameed 0:06
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone. This is Umar Hameed, your host and welcome to the No Limits Selling Podcast, where industry leaders share their tips, strategies and advice on how to make you better, stronger, faster, get ready for another episode.

Umar Hameed 0:36
Today, I have the pleasure of having Rhonda Overby joining me today, and Rhonda is the Chairman, President and CEO of Camera Ready, Inc. Rhonda, welcome to the program.

Rhonda Overby 0:49
Thank you for having me. It's good to be here.

Umar Hameed 0:51
I'm really excited to be talking to you today because you are also an actress.

Rhonda Overby 0:58
Yeah.

Umar Hameed 0:59
And the thing that intrigues one of my favorite shows is "Inside The Actor's Studio". And the reason I love that show is this is my fascination is human beings and why we do what we do. And actors see humanity from a different lens, because they have to embody another personality. And sometimes when they're talking about their acting, they articulate the human experience in a different way than a psychiatrist would, than a mere mortal would. And sometimes that gives me deep insights into things I've been like wondering about so, so excited to have you here.

Rhonda Overby 1:39
Thank you acting, especially at the highest levels, to be done effectively requires extreme empathy.

Umar Hameed 1:47
Yes. This is my illusion. So correct me because you live it, that it requires that authenticity and transparency and vulnerability. Like if you can step into that, my illusion is that's when you step out of the television and you touch somebody's heart.

Rhonda Overby 2:08
It's interesting that you characterize it that way. Because some would say to embody another effectively requires talent that isn't transparent, because the person conveying those images, embodying this other person for the duration of the production can be nothing like that, whom he or she is portraying. So transparency, maybe, maybe not. I think that's up to.

Umar Hameed 2:42
So this would be an interesting. So what's your read on it? Which way? would you would you go when you embody a character? Are you tapping into who you really are? And going through that lens of that personality? Or what does that work? Like? How does that work?

Rhonda Overby 2:58
People have different modes, some use method acting, and it really does depend upon the actor. It's an individualized response, whether it calls for tapping into something that's true to you emotionally. Although the circumstances may be different. It really does depend and different actors answer in different way.

Umar Hameed 3:25
And how do you answer?

Rhonda Overby 3:27
It is not something that I pursued. Very seriously for very long, I discovered acting, aside from school plays, growing up doing Undergraduate Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where you had to graduate from the general college before you could even declare a major. And there was one period where I could study women in ancient Greek literature, or drama. So I chose the latter. And in so doing, got A's throughout. And I thought, this doesn't even seem like it's fair, it was fun the whole time, and so easy to do. So I thought, wow, this is going on my transcript, you know, getting the same weight as Calculus and a Foreign Language, etc, etc. And I thought, wow, wouldn't it be fun to do this for a living? And at the time, there were no roles for ethnic women, right? You had people who were doing action roles, male ethnic figures, who might have a love interest on screen, who might have one senior too, so it was not plausible. And it was not until I ended my television news career to become an entrepreneur. Homicide Life on the Street was filming and I sent a headshot and got cast after I gave my notice, but working Until they found my replacement, etc. I was cast to play a newscaster having no idea that that would turn into a recurring role for many seasons while I was building my company, and it worked out very, very well. And it is difficult to do from the East Coast, unless you are already a marquee name, wherein you can do it from wherever you can receive communication.

Umar Hameed 5:30
So looking from your lens, we're going to actually turn to business and sales in a minute but looking from your lens as an actor, who are some of the actors out there that you go, you know, they are the Masters Of Their Craft.

Rhonda Overby 5:44
Nicole Kidman, Denzel Washington, there's so many I hate to name right Jude Law. I mean, Anthony Hopkins, Ben Kingsley. I could just

Umar Hameed 5:56
Go on and on.

Rhonda Overby 5:57
Yeah, yeah. And I'm terrible with names. And there's someone else coming to mind right now as well, Viola Davis, I mean, they're just so many.

Umar Hameed 6:08
And there's a local actor here at Norton, I think.

Rhonda Overby 6:11
Oh, he's phenomenal. In fact, I thought he should have earned the Academy Award for Primal Fear.

Umar Hameed 6:17
Yeah. So now tell me about camera ready? What do you guys do?

Rhonda Overby 6:22
Strategic communications.

Umar Hameed 6:24
What does that mean, in English?

Rhonda Overby 6:25
It can mean anything, based on what the client needs? It is, are you saying what you think you're saying? To whom you think you're saying it because communication is not just talking or emitting sound, it is how it's received.

Umar Hameed 6:25
Absolutely.

Rhonda Overby 6:31
And we live in a global world. Not everybody interprets the same way, the same thing. So it's not just a matter of speaking in the language, whether it's English, Spanish, whatever the language is, but so that they can hear you so that they can feel the message the way that you intend. So it is making sure that the mission and the vision align with every touchpoint with your audience, whether it's internal or external.

Umar Hameed 7:23
So give me a real life example, if you can have a particular client like this was their message. And this is how he transformed it, or they were going after the wrong target, and we retargeted and refine the message. Can you give a real world example?

Rhonda Overby 7:39
Absolutely. And I'll try and think of one where and it is not disclosed. Who the audience who the client is, because we really believe in confidentiality.

Umar Hameed 7:53
But the tagline is, you deserve a break today. I'm only kidding.

Rhonda Overby 7:57
Wouldn't that'd be nice touching. Um, I will give you an example of efficacy. There was a client who had been running promotions internally, and with an outside firm.

Umar Hameed 8:13
So internal staff?

Rhonda Overby 8:15
Internal as well as external, so they had an internal marketing department and an ad agency under contract. And this was a promotion that they would run every time they needed to draw in a certain number of clients at a certain price point. And Camera Ready was the new agency. And we launched the campaign differently based on where we saw their target audience, we saw their target audience as effluent with disposable income, local, within a certain mile radius of the business outwards. We launched a campaign that had results so quickly that by the very next marketing meeting, the Chief Financial Officer had a fit, because there had been so much response, that it was costing the business so they exceed it goes to such a tremendous degree, that we had to cut the campaign short, it was supposed to run for half a year, it ran less than one quarter because it was so successful. And it was just a matter of not just doing what the prior advertising agency had done, but understanding who they needed to reach and who could respond.

Umar Hameed 9:49
So what interests me is this. So who are they targeting before you came along and retargeted them?

Rhonda Overby 9:55
The general public.

Umar Hameed 9:57
People that run companies plus minus less . Let's take this company, I suspect they had a lot of smart people in the company.

Rhonda Overby 10:04
Oh, absolutely.

Umar Hameed 10:06
So the question is, you know, business 101 is you know who your target is, and it can't be everybody. But somehow there was still targeting everybody. How do you think that happens?

Rhonda Overby 10:17
In this particular case, not only was it the general market, they were targeting their clients as well, internally, through mailers, and people who already had an affinity, well, that market was tapped, right. And the general market was too broad for where they are. So we just did a specialized campaign based on the specific product. And based on where they are, which reached a whole new market for them, but the market that had the income at the ready to take advantage of the offer,

Umar Hameed 10:55
How difficult was it to sell them on that concept? Was it like, "Oh, that makes sense, let's go?" Or did you have to, like, convince them to? "No, no, we know what we're doing. This is what we need to do."

Rhonda Overby 11:05
It, we didn't have to convince them. We were given a goal and the promotion and told to launch a campaign. And we did we just report it, what were we doing? They trusted because we had been their public relations agency, and had already made an impact there. Nice. So there was

Umar Hameed 11:29
Leverage that trust to say.

Rhonda Overby 11:30
Exactly. In fact, we started doing the advertising by default. Because because we are we were the PR agency already. We were just asked to take a look at an ad campaign to make sure it was on target with the message because we'd been working so closely. And when I looked at the ads, they were era's, but they also were not on mission. And so they were scheduled to go into production the next day. And I called the CEO to say, "Did you take a look at the scripts, because from what I'm interpreting, it is not aligned with the mission and the vision." So we ended up having to take over that campaign. And the rest.

Rhonda Overby 11:42
Tell me about another client, where they had the message honed, but their audience was receiving something else. Where you got a chance to kind of go in and do you realize that you think you're saying this, but they're hearing this? And that's why there's a disconnect, does anything come to mind?

Rhonda Overby 12:50
Often, gosh, and I wish I could think of something that's easy to convey, because sometimes that's difficult to convey, unless you're talking about something that's as obvious as a mission. People will talk at meetings, and will develop a mission statement for one thing, most have so many words, and are so global in their reach, that they don't speak to how each role within the company is important. So often, employees are not aware that there is a mission statement or a vision statement. And if they are, they're not aware of why the function that they play is integral to it. And so one of the things we do is making it relevant to everybody because everybody on the team is relevant to achieve the overall goals. And that is often what's not done. That's often the missing link that can be impactful regardless of what the tagline is.

Umar Hameed 14:07
So one of the things that I do is going to most companies are going to be small companies. According to the feds, any company less than 500 people is considered a small company. But I'm talking more people with like 60 people, 100 people tops. Oftentimes what they do is at some stage of their company could be when they start or sometime into it, they go, you know, we really need a mission statement and a vision statement. And they either use consensus, or they use a consultant, and they come up with a mission statement. That is bullshit because it's inauthentic. And I think every single human being on planet Earth has a purpose in life. And if you get the founder CEO and you uncover their personal purpose in life, and you map that over to being the mission of the company, then they end up being the authentic leader. And once you've got the mission, which is more like a direction, then you can pick three years from now we want to be this and make that the vision and it kind of aligns more with that, and also the values of the founder. And the criteria they use. What if we mapped it over to the company, and then it would be something that's real and meaningful that sets them apart. But anyway, that's kind of, I believe, more in an organic approach, building things. And not one like, you know, the mission of our company is to make our employees, the environment, the whales, and it's like, I've read that before, everywhere. There's a really brilliant guy who said this statement once he says, talking about marketing, if your marketing does not have the power to offend, it does not have the power to convince. And I was like, that is scary. But true, it's like you can sell be the one thing to everyone. This is your target, sell to them, sell to them, why they possibly want to take action not be so vanilla, that they're like,

Rhonda Overby 16:12
What's your competitive advantage?

Umar Hameed 16:14
Yeah.

Rhonda Overby 16:14
Are you communicating it?

Umar Hameed 16:17
One of the campaigns he did was finding Canada's most lovable used car dealer. And they had these teddy bears as part of their campaign. And it was just like, so silly. Because that's probably the least trusted profession out there.

Rhonda Overby 16:30
Oh, absolutely.

Umar Hameed 16:32
I'm not sure they deserve that wrap. But that's still it's the perception is reality kind of thing.

Rhonda Overby 16:37
Sure, the used car salesman.

Umar Hameed 16:40
So as you look out into the future, we are in changing times. And getting a crystal ball for anything more than two years in the future is a waste of time. So how do you navigate your company? I know there's some like certain basic truths of what you guys are doing. But for your clients as the climate changes. What are you envisioning? Like how do you stay on the relevant to your clients and relevant to what's happening in the world that we live in?

Rhonda Overby 17:10
Reading, constant growth, one of my theories is nothing that's living is stagnant. Status is not possible. So you're either progressing, or digressing, progressing or regressing. You cannot remain static, it's impossible. So when Camera Ready first started, we were not devising social media strategies for clients, it did not exist. But evolving with the breakneck change in the industry has been interesting, exciting, and it's what keeps us relevant. We are on the verge of even more changes as the algorithms change in social media, as you're able to fine tune target audiences. More and more, it creates opportunities, if you're abreast.

Umar Hameed 18:08
Yeah, learning is my number one most important value, because nothing gives me more joy than because when I learned things, either they go in the yes column, or they go in the no column, like this is not good. Or they go on the fence. And the stuff that's on the fence, the only way it comes off is when I read something else or learn something else and go Ah, that is important. Put it in the yes column or let's get rid of it. So learning is really important. For you, as you're defining this social media, I was just at a meeting yesterday, and they were talking about you could geotag a hospital. So your ads only showed geographically inside?

Rhonda Overby 18:50
Oh, sure. Sure.

Umar Hameed 18:52
And it's magical times. I mean, I couldn't.

Rhonda Overby 18:55
It creates incredible opportunity.

Umar Hameed 18:58
Aladdin said, You know, I want to do that Genie would have been Oh my God, that's too tough. We can't do that. And now it's possible. It's amazing.

Rhonda Overby 19:04
Oh, it is and and I love your learning theory. One of my philosophies is if I can't be better tomorrow than I am today, Why get up. And that's tied to learning to grow.

Umar Hameed 19:15
That I think Bob Dylan, not that I'm a big fan, but he's got a song You know, he not busy being born is busy dying. So that sense that your comfort zone or whatever we're talking about either is expanding or it's contracting, there is no status quo.

Rhonda Overby 19:28
You're so right.

Umar Hameed 19:31
So if you were advising a startup, for let's say, this is a selfish request here because I want to know this for me. An app company starting from scratch.

Rhonda Overby 19:45
Sure.

Umar Hameed 19:46
What does that look like?

Rhonda Overby 19:49
I would say first of all, what does your interface look like? How is the app designed? Is it very user friendly? There are so Many apps on so many platforms today, why your app?

Umar Hameed 20:05
Yes.

Rhonda Overby 20:06
That would be the first question. And you can answer it if you'd like.

Umar Hameed 20:11
Yeah, it's I think just making something that is natural, self evident. The flow of it really helps a lot, making it super easy for somebody to pick up and figure out what it is. And that's an ongoing process.

Rhonda Overby 20:27
So I think my question is different than you interpreted. It is, why the app?

Umar Hameed 20:35
Why does it exist?

Rhonda Overby 20:38
Right, you said if I, if you were talking to me, first of all, as a potential client,

Umar Hameed 20:44
Yes

Rhonda Overby 20:45
I would want to believe in what you were doing. Because I think that if I buy into what you're doing, then I can be more strategic and helping you accomplish it, versus just saying, "Okay, well, how much? How much can we get paid to do this?"

Umar Hameed 21:05
And just stopping there for a second. The sense I get is that if the app isn't what it needs to be that you would be the first one to say, this is not going to work? And here's why.

Rhonda Overby 21:17
And that's the technical point of it.

Umar Hameed 21:19
Yeah.

Rhonda Overby 21:20
But I'm going even beyond the technical development

Umar Hameed 21:23
I'm interested in more in terms of this is not a good idea that you'd be bold enough to tell the client, I think this is a bad idea. And we shouldn't waste money unless we recraft it, whereas a lot of vendors would go, Well, I know. Well, let's see what we can do and is more about the payday than the let's get it right.

Rhonda Overby 21:42
You know, that ties back to the very first business question as you characterized it. When you said strategic communication,

Umar Hameed 21:49
Yes.

Rhonda Overby 21:51
Maybe it's because I grew up in live television news, where you couldn't go to block and you had to get the story under extreme deadline, very publicly. No opportunity to issue the long memo, and massage the message so that it was watered down and needed to communicate directly to be effective to achieve the goal in New York second. And so one of Camera Ready strategic advantages, is that just what you said, "Oh, why would I want this app?" I would say that, like, there are 10 other apps that do Why you? Right? So I would, I would, I would say that. And then if I thought the idea had merit, I'd get into the technical interface, and then the pricing and on what platforms, and then how are you going to push that out to the target audience so that they want it, and so that they engage with it so often that they recommend it, and download it and use it and refer it so that you keep going and going and going.

Umar Hameed 23:10
Because I do believe that you know, whatever you're doing, I'm a firm believer in execute quickly, and iterate to make it better. With an app, you can't do that as much. Because once it goes out there, it needs to be at a certain level of quality and all that stuff. But still, that's it's going to get better over time. And people that want to make something totally perfect, whatever it ends up being, I think they kind of hold back too long, it's better to just make it good enough. So if I'm writing a marketing piece, I can wait to write it perfectly. Which might be a really long time, or I can just vomit on paper, and then edit, then share it with people and say what do you think and then after the third iteration is pretty darn good kind of your thoughts on that process versus going for perfection out of the gate?

Rhonda Overby 24:00
I think there is huge value in the beta testing versions of technology. Before going out, I still believe in the old adage you never get a second chance to make a first impression. So I'm against vomiting on the page. But getting it out there versus just in your head. Now sometimes people think of an idea and never take that step to get it onto the page. So I think there's merit in doing that in the privacy of your office or your home or your space. But before it's rolled out publicly, I think it should have gone through enough testing to offer some merit and it can be tweaked as people interface

Umar Hameed 24:50
Absolutely. I agree when it goes out into the public realm and needs to be of a certain quality, but getting it there. I believe in the okay. Let's create a beta, send it out to friends and family, tweak it make it better send it out some reviewers. And then that process speeds up the entire

Rhonda Overby 25:08
Absolutely.

Umar Hameed 25:08
Whether it's written word or an app or a car or whatever.

Rhonda Overby 25:12
And in our world, that's why we use focus groups. Yes, they can add incredible value. Just seeing them engage while you're watching on the other side of the wall should you choose to. There's huge value in that. And I'm a firm believer in so doing.

Umar Hameed 25:26
Before we part company today by any chance did you watch that TV show called The Pitch?

Rhonda Overby 25:35
One episode because it was serial.

Umar Hameed 25:39
Yes, this one was they have a real world account like Walmart or whoever. And they have two agencies pitch, pitch their ideas, and one of them is going to win. And I've got a 100% track record. Don't be jealous of picking the loser.

Rhonda Overby 25:54
Oh, my!

Umar Hameed 25:56
I like the other campaign better. It's like, for sure this one's gonna win, because I think it's amazing. But for the entire first season, I got every single one wrong.

Rhonda Overby 26:04
Wow.

Umar Hameed 26:04
And I wear it proudly.

Rhonda Overby 26:06
That's so interesting. That show was intense.

Umar Hameed 26:09
Yeah, I really liked that creative process of coming up with an idea, refining it. Before they present it a week later. Rhonda, one of the things that really intrigues me is this ability that human beings have to rationalize. And if you break up the word, it's rationalize. So we have this illusion of who we are, which is not who we actually are. And so how do you see that playing out? And in the business world, we've got companies and they have this image that they want to portray, but you look at the company and go, Well, wait a minute, there's a richer, more authentic story here. Why aren't you? Why don't people see that? Because sometimes their internal reality is not what's portrayed out there in the world. And there's like a disconnect, have you come across that?

Rhonda Overby 26:58
Absolutely. And there are so many examples today, during this time of transparency, where, gosh, Uber is going through it right now with how it started, and the culture that facilitated Uber Pun intended growth globally. And what was happening as a result, in terms of gaining that growth, there's a book Bad Blood dealing with Serrano's,

Umar Hameed 27:38
Oh, interesting,

Rhonda Overby 27:39
A movie is being made. And that case is being litigated wherein you had someone who started a company, believing that health care could be transformed by a patient's ability to prick their finger, test blood without having to go to the lab and have draws over and over and over again. And it becomes crucial when one is terminal and has to check levelsB. ut there was a culture in the company that has resulted in litigation that has yet to be resolved. That was not consistent with that mission. So you can have incredible intent and want to will it into existence. But not everything aligns accordingly, whether it's the technology, whether it's the people, whether it's the ability to replicate it, because you started talking about human and what we portray, and how that's received, while we play, humans are enrolled. And when I say playing roles, I don't mean as actors. I mean, whether it is Umar, the businessman, Umar, the husband, Umar, the friend.

Umar Hameed 29:13
Yes

Rhonda Overby 29:14
In each role, you may be authentic, but different from you that same person in the other role.

Umar Hameed 29:20
So I'll give you another version of that. Because I don't totally I get what you're saying. In a more fundamental level, I think there is we each have three phases. Phase One is what we show the outside world. And sometimes that's Look at me, I'm pretty whether it's husband or business guy or friend, and sometimes what we show the outside world is unbroken, I'm a victim on never be loved. For example, we've all got friends like that, that that's what they show the outside world. But then there is something worse than the illusion we show the outside world is the delusion of who we think we are. Because oftentimes who we think we are, isn't that authentic us, I think the human journey is really uncovering who we actually are. And when we discover who we are, what that does is that delusion disappears. And we can actually go, this is who I am. And when we get brave enough, this is what we show the outside world. And when you come across people like that, and you hear this once in a while, we say, you know, this person when you see him in public, and when you're his best friend, it's the same person, there is no ifs, that's a rare commodity. And one of the reasons they're so attractive to other human beings is when you're in their presence, you feel safe at a fundamental level, because there's like a known north star quality. And I think that's part of the human journey is really figuring out those three phases, and getting them to coalesce into the authentic you.

Rhonda Overby 30:50
Exactly the word that came to mind, as you describe that is authenticity. But who was it who said, the highest form of knowledge is self knowledge?

Umar Hameed 30:58
Yes.

Rhonda Overby 30:59
So I don't think the goal is to deal with the three faces. But for the human to recognize that true face, and to be brave enough to wear that face, which, when you discover that doesn't require awaring, it's just is.

Umar Hameed 31:18
It's being as human beings, you get to be that person, and it's effortless to do. But the question is, how do you uncover your authentic self, and I think that's where society comes in, our upbringing comes in. Because if I went to 10 different people and said, finish this sentence, for me, this sentence would be a good person is, and someone will answer it, maybe three words will come up, a good person is dependable, a good person is a loving a good person is whatever.

Rhonda Overby 31:51
Truthful.

Umar Hameed 31:52
But you go to another person, ask them the same question, what were revealing there are what are their beliefs around what a good person is. And if you get 10 people, you'll probably get 50 or 60 different answers on what a good person is.

Rhonda Overby 32:07
So to me, that's a different question than your original. Because that's somebody's opinion of what a good person is. So your truth self. Who's is and good requires judgment. So be authentic self. And you talked about up upbringing and roles. Sometimes people are so busy playing the role well

Umar Hameed 32:30
Yes

Rhonda Overby 32:31
That they have no idea who they really are, because they're getting it done every day.

Umar Hameed 32:37
Getting it done. And the reason they play the role is because fundamental building blocks of human beings are the beliefs that we hold. The only problem is that they sit in the unconscious, and they project the world that we want to live in and how we need to behave. And that's why it's so difficult to kind of go underneath that to figure out who we really are. Because our beliefs color, the way we see that. And some good example would be are you married?

Rhonda Overby 33:04
Are you asking me that question? Move on.

Umar Hameed 33:07
Okay. So let's say there was someone else sitting there at budds pick me when I was married. Sometimes I had this illusion of who I was. And my wife would say, No, you're not that funny, really. But I really had the belief that I was. So sometimes people that know us the best, sometimes can see more clearly into who we are, then we can see ourselves.

Rhonda Overby 33:29
Oh, absolutely. But sometimes playing the role is not I'm just deciding to play the role. We start out going to school, you know, there is a structure in which you want to succeed, you're told you need to be successful, in order to be happy, and so on and so forth. And so you go to school on time, hopefully, you do the lesson you want the grades you want the A and it just ends up being this path of doing what you're supposed to do. In order to succeed. Often it takes stillness and time alone where there is no structure that dictates success and what you're supposed to do to tap into who you were before you ever heard of school, and many don't have the luxury of that time or if they do are not comfortable enough alone to use it in a valuable enough way to get to that essence.

Umar Hameed 34:26
So give you an example I had this great salesperson come in hitting over quota five years straight. The one problem I can't ask for referrals, a try and do it I feel really uncomfortable doing it or I go to do and I do it badly. If you could help me with that would really help me increase my sales by 30% minimum love to do that. So it's like okay, tell me about a particular time you went to ask her for all and did it badly or You felt so uncomfortable, you didn't do it. Salesperson says, okay, a month ago, I was with this client said in your mind's eye, go back to that event, see the client before you to go back to that very moment, see what you saw. Hear what you heard you asking your inner thoughts. When you do those two things, you get to re experience what you were feeling in your body. And he goes, That's weird. I'm feeling it now is a really uncomfortable feeling in my stomach right over here. So there's a tool from neuroscience, you can link that feeling to the unconscious mind that records everything. And using that tool, have you ever felt this feeling before conscious mind would have said, not sure this tool goes, Oh my God. I was in the kitchen with my dad and one of my dad's buddies from work. And the two adults were talking and my dad said, "Real men don't ask for help." And this little boy back then picked up that thought. And it became a belief don't ask for help. So asking for the sale is not asking for help. I'm giving you something valuable. Asking for referral is violating that belief. And so once we figured out what the belief was, and changed it that allowed him to comfortably ask, I get a call back a couple of weeks later saying thanks for doing that, you know, my customers want to get back to me, it's going to be a great year to this year, but something weird is happening. What's happening, that's weird. Is it cold calling I did it was okay. It was okay for me. But now, I really, really enjoy it. Because part of cold calling is asking for a favor. Can I have a few seconds and and once we cured the belief, then it freed that up as well. I think sometimes where the prisoners of our beliefs, we don't even realize we can do it. And that's kind of my purpose in life is kind of bring that kind of elegant inquiry and transformation to the world and teach people how to do it. So that they can step out of all those contracts and step back into who they really are. And it changes the world completely.

Rhonda Overby 37:02
Absolutely. There is so much depth to what you just said, those core beliefs that stem from usually innocuous moments, that manifest in behaviors that are totally disassociated, and can be extremely limiting.

Umar Hameed 37:23
And sometimes it's so much easier seeing it other people and other people, and so darn difficult discovering it in ourselves. And I think that's part of the challenge is, you know, getting to those things. And before we get start talking about your company, the last thought that I want to share with you is that the one thing you need to pay attention to more than anything else in the world is your body. Hmm, because your mind will lie to you. We can rationalize anything. But if you pay attention to your body, and they've got books written about your body tells you there's danger here. And your intellect looks around. No, it's a nice neighborhood. What are you talking about? But your body has sense there's something not right. And so with that in mind, when we go into meet someone, if we realize that our body is like litmus paper paper in chemistry class, that if I pick up a feeling of wonder, and I'm thinking, do I really feel that and sometimes go, No. If I don't feel that, then the other person is feeling it and I'm picking it up. Or if there's an uncomfortableness I pick up and it's like, do I feel uncomfortable about this topic? It's like no. And that means that the person I am talking with is feeling it. And sometimes if I feel it here, and I'm holding my hand on my subtle solar plexus, I'll go to the person and put my hand on my solar plexus and go say, How do you feel about that? And because I've done that, they'll go, Well, I kind of feel uncomfortable. Because unconsciously told them I know, this is you. And it's not just amazing.

Rhonda Overby 39:02
It is you're describing energy, which they say once it's created can never be destroyed. How is it that you enter a room and can feel the tension, but everyone silent upon entry

Umar Hameed 39:13
And smiling maybe? Absolutely. And so I think we don't do that enough. And I think if there was one message I'd like to get out into the world is just really get a good sense of what your body feels like. And when you walk into a room, or you walk into a situation, you'll pick up so much more information. Like there's this one pie chart that we've all probably seen. Communications. 7% of communications are the words that are being used. 38% is the tonality and how it said 55% is body language and it's like, Oh, that's nice. And I guess what I'm describing is pay attention to your body and you pick that 55% up effortlessly if you allow it to happen.

Rhonda Overby 39:57
Oh, you're right. I have a post up on LinkedIn right now. Think that read something like to go? Faster, farther, better? Stop. Feel your lungs breathing, listen to your heart beating, are they in sync?

Umar Hameed 40:17
Yeah

Rhonda Overby 40:18
We often are breathing

Umar Hameed 40:21
Shallow

Rhonda Overby 40:21
Right? Not recognizing that it's shallow, not actually feeling a pulse at all.

Umar Hameed 40:29
And what you're describing, at least from my point of view, is stepping back into your body and being present in the moment. And that's just a mechanism to get there. And most people do not do that. And I don't do it often enough, because when I step into my body, that's when I bring my best self to the equation.

Rhonda Overby 40:51
I'm sure you're right. Presence, really being where you are. And in this day and age where everybody's on a device. You see, people trying to be in multiple places at once often thinking that multitasking results in better outcomes. And there are many studies that show the reverse of that is true.

Umar Hameed 41:14
And what's tragic, is people that used to be in love, that are in a relationship can be in a restaurant both paying attention to their phone, and not each other.

Rhonda Overby 41:26
That's sad.

Umar Hameed 41:27
Extremely. And I've been guilty of it in the past.

Rhonda Overby 41:33
There's actually a biblio psychology. Are you familiar with it?

Umar Hameed 41:36
No, tell me.

Rhonda Overby 41:37
I thought it was where you were going when you were talking about energy and being in your body. But it is a tool that therapist use the New York Times Magazine, I want to say Sunday, early August, featured a book, I don't remember the name of the book, but it's where I became familiar with this term, where the concept is the therapist will listen to a patient and get a sense that this dynamic is played out in a work of literature and will refer accordingly. And it's a breakthrough for the person who recognizes him or herself in this character.

Umar Hameed 42:22
Yeah. Have you come across kinesiology in your travels?

Rhonda Overby 42:26
A little.

Umar Hameed 42:27
So one of the things that I've seen in the past is where you get someone to hold up their arm on their side. So it's like, parallel to the ground. And then someone will come with two fingers on the end of the arm and ask the person to say something truthful, and they can't move their arm. And then they ask them to, say a lie, and the arm becomes weak, no matter how much they try, it'll just fold immediately. Have you come across that?

Rhonda Overby 42:54
Yes

Umar Hameed 42:56
This part I'm about to tell you, I have not come across. I saw this just the other day. So that way, you can kind of understand like, something's going on. So this gentleman had this guy come up. And he did that, and demonstrated strength and weakness when you lie versus truth. And then he asked the victim, I mean, the volunteer to close his eyes. And then he told the audience that I want you to think, positive thoughts about this person when I do a thumbs up. And I want you to think about negative thoughts when I do a thumbs down. And then this person's got his eyes closed, his arm is up solid as a rock. And the guy does a thumb up. So the guy can't see cuz guys behind him, plus, he's got his eyes closed. And people just start thinking positive thoughts, and his arm is rock solid. And then he goes like this, and people start thinking negative thoughts. And he does not know they're doing it. And when he goes to touch the arm, it just goes down effortlessly. Like he's totally weak. And how does that happened? Because I saw it happen live. And so we talk about the people we surround ourselves with and how the environment impacts us. And that was just a concrete example of thoughts have power. And you don't even have to be a willing recipient of it, and you still get the impact of it.

Rhonda Overby 44:13
Oh, there's some who say if people really understood how much power bots have

Umar Hameed 44:19
Yeah

Rhonda Overby 44:19
They'd never think a negative one.

Umar Hameed 44:23
Absolutely. And the last thought I'll leave you with is people are so enamored with affirmations. Sure. I love them for a totally different reason.

Rhonda Overby 44:34
What's that?

Umar Hameed 44:35
So let's say someone went, I am. I am sexy to women. And they say it 10 times. Let's say I was saying it 10 times. I'm not interested in what I'm saying. What I'm deeply fascinated is when that negative voice comes up and says Who the hell are you kidding? That is a thread that leads to a belief in the unconscious that's stopping you from getting what you want. So I use affirmations. When I'm working with clients to uncover what the belief is underneath, so let's say it's like I am thinking I am thin and healthy, and they say it, but the inner voice comes up and says, whatever that's linked to a belief. And if we can uncover the negative belief and change it, then it just accelerates that path to health. So humans are fascinating and

Rhonda Overby 45:24
Their concept is fascinating.

Umar Hameed 45:27
The Rhonda, thanks so much for spending time with me today. I could go on for another hour or two.

Rhonda Overby 45:34
Yeah, this is Yeah, yeah, work. Humans are complex

Umar Hameed 45:38
And wonderful and magical and tragic. And I love them all.

Rhonda Overby 45:46
Thanks for having me.

Umar Hameed 45:48
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to iTunes and leave a five star rating. And if you're looking for more tools, go to my website at nolimitsselling.com. I've got a free mind training course there that's going to teach you some insights from the world of Neuro-Linguistic Programming. And that is the fastest way to get better results.


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