Vlad Kats is the CEO of Five Doors Network, the leading expansion team of the largest real estate company in the world, Keller Williams.
Five Doors Network's vision is to create, build, and protect generational wealth for families through real estate by leveraging superior talent, proven systems & models, and revolutionary technology.
Prior to joining Five Doors, Vlad had an extremely successful career at Keller Williams, starting as a top-producing agent and assumed the role of Team Leader (CEO) of the newly-launched Keller Williams Legacy in 2014. Under his leadership, the Legacy Market Center grew from 59 associates to over 400 in less than three years— becoming the fastest-growing real estate office in the nation and the number one real estate office by size, units, and volume in the Baltimore Metro Area.
Prior to his career in real estate, Mr. Kats was an economist for a major U.S. Government Agency, a small business owner and an adjunct professor of Management. He holds a degree in Economics from St. Mary’s College of Maryland and a Master of Business Administration from the University of Maryland in College Park. Mr. Kats is also an active participant in programs designed by Landmark Worldwide.
Podcast Highlights:
- Focus on production
- We are here to make a difference
- Embrace technology that augments realtor performance
Contact Vlad:
#realtor #podcast #NoLimitsSelling
[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]
Umar Hameed 0:06
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone. This is Umar Hameed, your host and welcome to the No Limits Selling Podcast, where industry leaders share their tips, strategies and advice on how to make you better, stronger, faster, get ready for another episode.
Umar Hameed 0:34
Today, I have the privilege of having Vlad Katz he is the CEO of Five Doors, one of like the premier real estate teams in the world. Vlad, thanks so much for coming on the program.
Vlad Kats 0:44
It is my pleasure, Umar.
Umar Hameed 0:46
Vlad. What astounds me is, in one respect how easy real estate is, and at the same time, it's so complex, because we have to deal with human beings. Most challenging of all we have to deal with our own stuff. First thing I'm going to ask you is you were the number one recruiter for Keller Williams worldwide. What did that look like? How did you find the right candidates and make them successful?
Vlad Kats 1:09
Oh, yes. How do I do that? So first of all, what I knew is that those the people that I was looking for the real estate agents in the Baltimore area. Were the were the agents who wanted more. And here's what I mean by that, like you mentioned just a second ago is that we all have to deal with our own kind of stuff.
Umar Hameed 1:40
Yes.
Vlad Kats 1:41
And it's welcome to being human. Right, you can be human and not be dealing with humanity.
Umar Hameed 1:46
Yes.
Vlad Kats 1:47
And so I knew that the conversation in real estate community was not based on validity, it was based on popularity.
Umar Hameed 1:59
What do you mean by that?
Vlad Kats 2:01
Well, think about it. In most of the conversations in most of the real estate community, I don't want to generalize too much, right?
Umar Hameed 2:11
We're talking within realtors themselves or with clients?
Vlad Kats 2:15
Both.
Umar Hameed 2:16
Both.
Vlad Kats 2:17
It's, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just this is what it is. It's, it's based on. I like this person versus I like that person. Hey, who do you like is your realtor? Oh, I like this person. That's a realtor. Okay, oh, man, they're really cool. Or they're really funny, or they're really fill in the blank. Right? And that's, in my opinion, that's a popularity based conversation, nothing wrong with it, which is what it is. However, when you think about business, and when you think about business, popularity in business does not matter as much as validity does.
Vlad Kats 2:50
And by validity. You mean?
Vlad Kats 2:52
By validity? I mean, a scoreboard with the results. Yeah.
Umar Hameed 2:56
Yeah.
Vlad Kats 2:56
Like you know, you know, we're we're about to witness the biggest football game of the year. Right in Super Bowl.
Umar Hameed 3:04
Right.
Vlad Kats 3:04
And no matter whether you think the Tom Brady's popular, you know, Tom Brady's valid
Umar Hameed 3:11
Yep, he's gonna deliver it does football what he needs to do,
Vlad Kats 3:14
Yeah, nine Super Bowl can take that away from him. And he may win his six, which would be a big deal, right, though even five is a big deal. So in a when we opened Keller Williams legacy here in Pikesville, Pikes in Maryland, we knew that we had a big mission, we had a big vision. And underneath of it all, we knew that the way to make to bring that mission and vision to fruition was we were going to change the conversation from a popularity based conversation to validity based conversation from a from a simple conversation to a business conversation.
Umar Hameed 3:51
How did you get people to really reveal themselves? Because sometimes, you know, we can all talk a good game, especially for hiring salespeople is what we're talking about. But how did you separate people that were the real deal versus pretending and also people that perhaps didn't think they were salespeople, but had those traits that were essential? And they became really successful? So how did you sort that out?
Vlad Kats 4:16
See, I believe that people grow in the conversation, people grow into conversations you create around them. Okay, so how do we separate is we brought them into a productivity specific environment. And when somebody is in the productivity specific environment, now they have a chance to increase their production.
Umar Hameed 4:36
Right.
Vlad Kats 4:39
So, if you think about separation, it usually happens on the field. How do you know somebody is going to play the game? Okay, yeah, some people don't even want to play the game, but most people do.
Vlad Kats 4:51
Right.
Vlad Kats 4:51
How do they know whether they're gonna perform or not that you put them in the game?
Umar Hameed 4:54
Absolutely. I'm gonna ask you about a lot of people come into the real estate business and some people stay and have a, you know, a good life. And some people just become superstars. And some people stay way too long, because they're really not doing it, but they don't give up. So the question I have for you is this, how do we get people to first identify that the right people for this industry and be how do we get them to be successful faster.
Vlad Kats 5:24
So I believe that anyone truly mean anyone can be successful in this industry. The reason I love real estate industry is because it is the only industry that I've been a part of, and then I've researched and I've been a part of many industries and researched even more, that truly does not have a ceiling. Okay, it does not, like, you know, think about it technology world, there's a really high ceiling of knowledge and information, yes. And then financing, right, in the medical profession, really high ceiling.
Umar Hameed 5:53
The entry bar is low and coming through here.
Vlad Kats 5:55
Anybody can be in here andanyone can succeed. Now, I think that one of the biggest determinants of whether somebody succeeds or not, is a hope. You see?
Umar Hameed 6:06
Meaning?
Vlad Kats 6:07
Yeah, it's is is who they surround themselves with.
Umar Hameed 6:11
Okay.
Vlad Kats 6:11
Who is their leader? Who is their coach? Who is pouring into them? Right? Okay. And, you know, anyone could get in, but not everybody finds a hole. And then on top of that our industry is is also doesn't focus on who's our industry focuses on how and what very few real estate professionals are walking around asking, Who is the person that can help me get to the level next level of success? Most of us look at YouTube for how, yes, attend trainings for how and what most of the conversations is, hey, what CRM are you using?
Umar Hameed 6:50
Yes.
Vlad Kats 6:51
Okay. Hey, how was your listing presentation? Or can you show me that listing presentation? How did you overcome that objection? Rather than who can pour into me? Who Can I pour into? Okay, with whom can I have a business relationship in order to move both of our needles forward?
Umar Hameed 7:11
That makes sense. It's all about the human relationship and the human condition. You guys are doing a good job here. How many agents in this office?
Vlad Kats 7:17
400
Umar Hameed 7:18
400. Let's say you got a mandate. No more Keller Williams, you have to start a brand new endeavor. But you get to break all the old moles, that you get to redesign this process from ground zero. I'm sure you'll adopt some of the things you do at Keller, but there's probably some things you'd say, Okay. These are the sacred cows, I'm going to sacrifice? How would you would be three things you do differently that would allow people to be more successful?
Vlad Kats 7:53
Three things that I would do differently to create more success for our people. Umar, That's a really great question. A really tough one, I'll be honest with you.
Umar Hameed 8:06
And the reason I asked this before you go on and give you some time to think about it, is that Keller Williams, I like a lot, because they really take that human condition. And that self development is really, really important. And yet, there are still agents that are part of the Keller Williams system that could be doing so much better. So sometimes when we are doing a particular industry, we get, we become the prisoner of our history. And the people that revolutionize things come in and said, We're going to throw the rulebook away. Like, a bad example is Uber and taxis. What if we didn't own the taxis? What if this, what does that and initially people should have said, You can't do that there's a laws and all that. So any ideas what you do differently to get more?
Vlad Kats 8:54
So I don't think it would be differently. It's actually what we're doing in Five Doors now. Right? And what Keller Williams is doing, we with Gary Keller are taking over as the CEO recently. It's one of the beautiful things that this company has done it over the last decade, almost the last decade with John Davis is the VP of growth. And then CEO, President and CEO was focused on growth.
Umar Hameed 9:20
Yep.
Vlad Kats 9:20
And I think that we have reached a critical mass, if you will, within a company. So there's about 2 million real estate professionals in the United States. So just to give you an idea of critical mass, right, like Keller Williams is the biggest real estate company ever, like in North America ever to exist? Right. And that's about 180, 170, 180,000 real estate professionals. The industry in the United States is 2 million
Umar Hameed 9:50
To about 10% of all realtors at Keller Williams.
Vlad Kats 9:53
Yeah, it's it's not it's not even 10%
Umar Hameed 9:56
Yeah.
Vlad Kats 9:56
So the reason I say it's critical mass is because we've had so much fun focus on growth as a company that we reached a critical mass. And Gary Keller is amazing at focusing on agents production. Yes. So we've reached that mass critical mass and size, even though we're far from, you know, 50%, right or 30%. And now, the what was missing before was now the focus on making sure that everybody can produce. Now the focus right now currently is producing through technology tools.
Umar Hameed 10:30
Yes.
Vlad Kats 10:31
Because we're a tech company essentially. Right. And that's going to help alleviate a lot of pains for real estate professional in when pain is alleviated. This is my this is my understanding of my experience, they're able to function in their sweet spot, right. And that strong zone like strength is all right?
Umar Hameed 10:50
Right.
Vlad Kats 10:50
So that's going to make them more productive. That's one of the focuses for us in five doors, we have almost 200 members around the country. And for us, it's like, it's not just about having 200 members, it's how do you make sure to all 200 members. Do one to two transactions a month each and every month? So it's not enough just to do it?
Umar Hameed 11:10
So you're talking 200 agents?
Vlad Kats 11:11
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 11:12
Okay.
Vlad Kats 11:12
Yeah. So we're essentially a membership organization where we're real estate professionals,
Umar Hameed 11:17
Like this finers.
Vlad Kats 11:18
Yeah. That's it.
Umar Hameed 11:20
So,
Vlad Kats 11:21
So that would be one of the things and it's already happening is now let's focus on on production. Because we have the size. And by the way, like imagine what would happen to this company? So we know not only are we number one in, in, in United States, in North America, in agents in number of agents, we're also number one in volume. We're also number one in transactions.
Umar Hameed 11:46
Yes.
Vlad Kats 11:47
What would happen if now we started focusing more time, on transactions on transactions, like I would just distance? So the same thing again, the Five Doors, were growing fast, we're adding it 10-20 members a month. Okay, since I became the CEO, and now it's about our how do we make sure that everybody's producing because at the end of the day, our mission is building generational wealth through real estate? And that is possible only after? Yeah, exactly. They they meet their financial obligations from mortgage rent, you know, kids in school, etc.
Umar Hameed 12:26
This lots of data that shows that money is a huge motivator, if you're not getting your needs met. As soon as you get the Met, it just wanes off very, very quickly, of
Vlad Kats 12:38
course. And it totally makes sense because we are not on this planet, to make as much money as possible. Like, you know, you don't have to be religious or spiritual, necessarily, but like, I believe that God does not look down on us. You know, when we were born and says, Umar, you're going to be the best salesperson ever have lad, you are going to be the best KW team leader ever? No, we are here to make a difference. In fact, we take it one step further, we're here to maximize the difference that we can make on this ball of fire. And we can't make a big difference for others until we're taking care of it's like they say, on an airplane, right? Before you put a mask on somebody else, make sure that you're breathing.
Umar Hameed 13:24
And also, I like the punch line from Southwest. If you have two children figure out which one you love most hilarious. This. So let me let me ask you a question.
Vlad Kats 13:34
I have three.
Umar Hameed 13:34
So by the way, congratulations on the three. So one of the challenging areas for realtors are when you go from a solo person doing your own production and you decide I want a team. That's a different skill set. What would be some of the questions you'd ask someone before they do something so foolhardy like that, because sometimes it's ill advised, right? If you don't have the right skill set to lead, this is not going to end well for anyone. So how do you help people realize that they've got the skills they need, or these are the skills that are missing? And this is how you need to get them. You know,
Vlad Kats 14:13
First coach, I hired Tony to sell a back in the day. Oh, actually, he probably hired me. It was a he told me when I told him that want to build a team. He's like Vlad, don't build a team build a business. That's huge, then that need then that needs a team to support. And I think that most real estate professional, especially in today's day and age, are too hyped up on building teams. It's not about teams, it's about businesses. You see a business you know, if anybody listening who has not read the Cashflow Quadrant you know, that's just a must read book for any aspiring business. Summer. In it are Kiyosaki talks about the litmus test for a business.
Umar Hameed 15:07
Right.
Vlad Kats 15:07
See, most most real estate professionals believe that they have a business and they technically they do in a legal structure an S corp, an LLC, right? It's a business. And it's, you know, even we talk about like, how's your business? How's business etc. However, the litmus test is what happens to your business's income? If you leave for good reasons or bad reasons for six months? And what would you say Umar would happen to most real estate agents income if they had to go, let's say to Australia, for
Umar Hameed 15:41
It would go down there zero or very low very quickly?
Vlad Kats 15:44
Yeah. So that, by the way, business, that means it's not a business. Yeah. And it's not good or bad. It's just like, business business does not require you. So if the business does not require you, that means that it requires other people
Umar Hameed 15:59
Yes.
Vlad Kats 16:00
Right. So for the reason we want to build a business and then have a team to support it. Right, is because at the end of the day, that business has to function without you. But first, it's the business, then it's the team.
Umar Hameed 16:16
So I think great companies and real estate companies really come down to, if people are there to support you, who more you're the boss, and we're going to do this for you and go worse. And if you can get them to go, it's about the organization. And what do I need to do to make the organization better, and then it's all about their peers, people will do more for their peers, and they'll do for the leader, oh, my God. And I think if we can get people to get that, then people go above and beyond the call of duty, because they don't, they feel like they've let the team down. And that's a stronger motivator than I lead whom are down Oh, my God,
Vlad Kats 16:53
you're so spot on. My business partner and friend, Seth Campbell is a mentor of mine. He taught me a long time ago, that there's two types of organizations. There is the centralized organization, and there's a decentralized organization. centralized organization is one genius, surrounded by 1000 helpers. Yep. In a decentralized organizational model, it's 1000. Geniuses with one help. Okay. And that question becomes so when we look at real estate teams, which model are they operating in, right? And the loyalty so like, this is really important word right? In you pinpoint. It's truly awesome is the if the loyalties to the leader. It's not to the mission. And I believe that talent in this industry or an anywhere is attracted to the mission, not to the leader. And it is the leaders job is to develop a mission, it is leaders job to communicate the mission. Okay, it is not people's job to follow the leader, it is their jobs, to make sure the mission comes to life. So
Umar Hameed 18:13
I'll give you my version of definition of a great leader, what the response, which aligned perfectly with that, but we're differently, first and foremost, to have a compelling vision that inspires people to go beyond the limitations because they're excited by it. Number two, which is probably the harder one is how do you build a culture where people are selfless? It's not about me and my ego. It's about how can I contribute to this organization to fulfill that vision? And then the third one is, if you're a leader, how do I grow long term shareholder value for this organization. So it stands the test of time. And most people don't do that, because the team isn't strong, and they get dragged down into operations and decisions. Because Bill's fighting with Susie, and this isn't getting done. And then you're actually just the, the janitor for the entire place.
Vlad Kats 19:04
You're the right, you're the genius, surrounded by 1000 helpers, and everybody's bringing you their problems, whether they're personal or, or, or professional, and you're the genius that has to solve it. And sometimes, we have a genius combined with a savior complex. Yep. And then forget about it, you're stuck.
Umar Hameed 19:24
And sometimes you've got someone who is really smart and inspirational, and they get forced into that role. And there's other people that cling on to that role. And it's all about me, and I'm awesome. And if you you've read the book, Good to Great. And the difference between good companies and great companies is great companies, leaders built organizations was about the organization and the culture, not about me. And of course, the companies, the other ones, it's like I am a genius and you should follow me because you'd be nowhere without me. Right?
Vlad Kats 19:58
Yeah. And then think about you know, Have we started this conversation? Popularity versus validity? All right, it's like most people want to be popular, rather than be valid. And so in popularity, you know, the appeals to the ego. I mean, your NLP and NLP. Tell me about the losing the word genius guru, right the NLP getting folks I wanted to bring up your like yes finding just a certification like your understanding of human beings right and it's it's such a powerful methodology for that like you get it
Umar Hameed 20:36
you know the best thing I love about NLP which a lot of people have shied away from one of the core rules of NLP is this is the best way we know now. But there's probably a better way out there. And when you have that kind of mindset, no matter what you do, you improve as soon as you get the this is the only way this is the best way, then you might as well just pack up your tents and go home
Vlad Kats 20:59
limited. Yeah, versus I'm totally. So it's, it's like in in the real estate or in the real estate segment. Because most people say, man, like there's ego that comes with popularity. And usually with validity, there's not as much of it, it's kind of like has a control on it. And then when you build a company, when you build a team that's rooted in the big mission in the big vision, and is in is solidified and validity. Like, listen, how do you know you're you're you're meeting your mission and your vision, you look at numbers, at the end of the day, there has to be some tangible evidence behind you moving forward, or somebody's moving forward towards their mission towards David, listen, it can it doesn't have to be doesn't have to be in business. Like if I want it. For example, if I say I want to be the best father, you could ask me how many hours a week do you spend with your kids? Absolutely, you know, and they would how many hours you're 45 minutes per week, you may be like, well, is that actually enough for you to be the best father? And that? And then I'd be like, well, if I want to be best father, it's probably going to be time on task. Yes, I have to spend, because you know, with three kids that 15 minutes each, like,
Umar Hameed 22:17
so let me push back on that. Absolutely. So how good a father you are, is 100% measured by how happy and productive your children are? I would think at least that'd be one measure. And so you could have a father that is spending 40 hours a week with their kids disciplined, stern, pointing out mistakes, and the kids would be like, on my therapist couch. So I think there's hours but there's also results, right? Because ultimately, so how good a leader you are in five doors. I think transactions are one measure how well you guys do. Also how long agents stay in five doors. And also, you know, what does it feel like when you walk in this place? Is there like passion and aliveness and joy? are also measures of how well you do as leader? Right?
Vlad Kats 23:15
I would imagine even if all of that is in place, and the company company is not producing the results, then then maybe I'm not the best at it. Maybe I'm the best cheerleader. Yes. Yeah, maybe I'm a really good party. Yeah, maybe I'm a really good guy. Maybe I give really great hugs, which I do. Okay, we'll find
Umar Hameed 23:40
out at the end of this interview. It's,
Vlad Kats 23:43
I believe that as leaders, our the way that we measure effectiveness of our leadership is by the results our people are producing. All right. Going back to the I think that you're so right about that. Thank you for pushing back on me on on the parenthood and, and the minutes, I as you were talking, what popped into my head was if, when it comes to leadership, or being the best, the best parent, it's, it's not necessarily the time on task. It's the effectiveness of that time on task or communication that I have with my kids. Now, if I don't spend any time with my kids, how effective can my communication be answering your point? I can spend 40 hours a week with them and you know, and yell at them and deprive them of everything. And so that time is there. Yeah, the effectiveness of communication is not there. And I think that number one challenge for most leaders who want to be good and most people who want to be leaders who are getting started on a leadership path is they don't get yet how important is effect how important is their communication? That's one of the things I love about NLP and other programs is that it unlocks their blind spots. Absolutely right? Like communication is like what you're doing, we're just having a conversation. It just so happens that you know, other people will be listening to it later he's
Umar Hameed 25:14
dropping, he said, Here's my definition of you know how to build a really good team. Every single human being on earth has a purpose in life, but most people don't know what it is. And when you help somebody uncover their purpose, and you make that the mission for their, their team, they, they become authentically living and breathing what that is. And then from that you say, Okay, from that mission, what is a goal we can put in the future that's worth going, that's when the numbers and tangible stuff come out. And then to add to that, if we figured out lads, your deepest values at unconscious level, what's really important for you what defines your humanity? And then we made those values for the company, we took the criteria. So let's say one of your values, let's say was something like,
Vlad Kats 26:02
I can tell you my three tips you can tell me you 323 value, they're really simple. They're really simple. Number one is growth mindset. Number two, number two is heart. The number three is results.
Umar Hameed 26:14
Okay, so let me so, heart, so that could mean different things to different people. So if I asked you this question, Vlad, how would you know? You are living and breathing that hardness? What would you be able to see here? Or physically touch that would let you know you're on track
Vlad Kats 26:35
for art? So for me, what would that what I would see in me or another, another
Umar Hameed 26:40
in the team and you like, what would you be able to see that will give you tangible? We're on track.
Vlad Kats 26:45
So for me heart has two parts? Yes. Part number one,
Umar Hameed 26:48
the left valve the right route? No, sure.
Vlad Kats 26:51
I don't know which one is which? And either. So number one is we leave our heart on the field. Yes, we, we get stuff done because we said we're gonna You're done. We're gonna get it done. No matter what, like we play this is
Umar Hameed 27:06
wow. Remember the Titans kind of hard on the field? Yeah, love that playful out. Okay, full out.
Vlad Kats 27:11
Number two. Number two is hard to serve. So we are here to make a difference for others.
Umar Hameed 27:19
Brilliant. And number three, number three, just Okay, so let's go back to the number two. We are here to serve, how would you know that you're being of service to your agents and to your clients?
Vlad Kats 27:31
So our agents, our clients, how would I see that is so on the heart to serve is that they they are giving back to their communities? So we see that yes, we see that on Facebook, we see that and fundraisers we see that like, you know, for example, you know, one of our one of our partners, Jeff Payne is in flux lives in Panama City that was hit really hard by Hurricane hurricane Michael. Yes. Right. And so he he came up with an idea and it was around Christmas idea for a toy drive for kids in Panama City whose houses were destroyed, who were not gonna have Christmas. Umar, it was like, within a week, we and he created a goal of like 5000 bucks, so he can buy a bunch of toys. And within a week, we exceeded that goal, like and then Facebook was splattered with, with toy deliveries and trucks and all of that stuff. Brilliant. Yeah.
Umar Hameed 28:30
So I love that. And I think just asking that question, what am i values? And what's the criteria, because when you have agents underneath you, then you need to communicate with them. So they know when they're on task. And when they're not. I think when you have that, you've got that purpose and you're heading in that direction, you've got a goal of I'm going to do 1000 transactions this year. And
Vlad Kats 28:54
Nobody's excited by those goals. And remember, you know, absolutely, no teams are excited by that goal.
Umar Hameed 29:00
And then you the values, keep everybody on track and then alignment so you don't go out of value. Because sometimes you can get caught up in the goal and become an asshole or shut down or whatever. So, Vlad,
Vlad Kats 29:13
Those types of goals by the way are about the leader Yes, not about the team
Umar Hameed 29:18
Agreed lied before we part company a couple of things. Number one, as you're talking to agents and other leaders out there in different companies, what's the message you want to leave them so they can improve their results and get better and make the entire industry better?
Vlad Kats 29:33
Focus on leadership skills.
Umar Hameed 29:35
Brilliant. Any last thoughts comments? Before we part company in on which topic? Just anything that you say you know, I wish people would x or I'd like to just let them know where five doors is or whatever you'd like to share.
Vlad Kats 29:51
Here's one of the one of the lessons that I learned it on my leadership journey, especially in the world of real estate, and I see it outside of The industry as well. I believe that when we're growing a team or growing a business, is we create business partnerships with those four on our team. They may not be legally partners with us, but they are partners with us because it's like you pointed out, that's like, we're on the way to the mission. So five doors, the mission is building generational wealth through real estate, like that's our passion. That's what we're walking towards running towards. Okay. And, and when you when you when you take on the fact that the people around you are your partners in this business, okay, you then start making sure that first and foremost, foremost, just to echo you is there is a mission alignment.
Umar Hameed 30:47
Yes.
Vlad Kats 30:48
It's like, this is why we're on this planet, I want to save the dolphins and you want to save the dolphins great were a match, then there is a vision alignment is we're going in the same direction, because it's possible to save the dolphins in one ocean. And it's possible to save the dolphins in another ocean. Nothing wrong with either the oceans, but it's like we're going in the same direction. So the five doors were a world class sales organization. Somebody doesn't like sales, it's probably not the right place for somebody to be where somebody understands that building generational wealth is possible is going to be possible for us to be through being a world class sales organization. Perfect. Okay. And only then we talk about role alignment. In this industry. There's way too much role conversation, and not enough mission and vision conversations. And we jump into like, Oh, you want to be a buyer agent. Great. I need I have a bunch of buyer leads. Oh, you know,
Umar Hameed 31:44
Yep.
Vlad Kats 31:45
You. I don't have anybody to do administrative work. You look great. Why don't you do administrative work for me? We skip to the role. Or even worse, we go to the last match, which is compensation? No, I can only work for $40,000 a year I can only work for $50,000 Well, is it possible to make the money that you want in hate the organization that you're in and hate the role you're in? Yes, it happens to a lot of Americans each and every day. Okay? However, that would not happen if mission magical vision match was in play. And then they were only then you can talk about the right role.
Umar Hameed 32:22
That's brilliant. Vlad, thanks so much for sitting down with me.
Vlad Kats 32:26
Umar It's my pleasure.
Umar Hameed 32:31
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