Tina Beliveau’s personal mission in life is to inspire, to make meaningful impact through relationships, and to create connection and community between like-minded people. Fueled by a huge passion for leadership, growth, and sharing her talent and energy with those around her, Tina's career has progressed over 15 years in the real estate industry from working as a highly productive solo sales agent, to building one of the most successful real estate teams in Maryland, to building the number one selling real estate office in Maryland, to growing that company from one franchise location with 300 agents to three franchise locations with over 500 agents. Tina is an extremely gifted leader, salesperson, and marketer.
Tina started in the real estate industry in 2005, and quickly built a well-respected name in the local industry through a business model focused on referrals and a reputation for integrity and professionalism. As her business evolved, she discovered that there was a need to develop a high-quality, boutique real estate team that could deliver a uniquely high-quality experience that she personally cultivated and curated over her time as a realtor. In 2013, she began building The Beliveau Group, which grew from $15 million in annual sales volume to $48 million in annual sales volume in 2 short years.
In 2016, Tina took on a leadership role at a local real estate franchise (Keller Williams Legacy). During her 3 year tenure as office manager of the flagship KW Legacy franchise, then General Manager of 3 KW franchises, Tina and her leadership team achieved many incredible accomplishments, including attaining number one market share for the flagship office in Baltimore City, Baltimore County, and eventually the state of Maryland; ranking on the REAL Trends Top 500 Brokerage list for multiple consecutive years; and repeatedly ranking as the #1 office in the KW system of 800+ franchises for key performance measures including agent recruiting, agent productivity, and brokerage profitability. Over this time Tina developed a reputation in the local and national real estate community as a powerful leader who is positive and inspiring, highly credible, and extremely generous with her time, talent, and expertise.
Today, Tina is building a platform for real estate professionals to succeed on their own terms through teaching, consulting, speaking, and facilitating a closely connected community to elevate what's possible for members of her tribe.
Tina has been a sought-after panelist, facilitator and speaker at a variety of national conferences and events in the industry. She has been honored with many awards including The Daily Record’s Most Admired CEOs, Baltimore Real Producers Leadership Impact, The Greater Baltimore Board of Realtors’ Community Service Award, Smart CEO’s Emerging Leaders Award, and The Daily Record’s 20 in their 20’s Award.
Tina lives in the Baltimore suburbs with her husband, Andrew, and their three dogs. She is a Baltimore local and graduated from Towson University with a Bachelor’s Degree in Mass Communication and Advertising in 2007. Passionate about charity, developing leaders, and giving back to her community, Tina is extremely involved in the Maryland SPCA as a board member and also recently gifted the organization with a transport van that made it possible for the SPCA to double its capacity to deliver pet food to housebound pet owners and transport thousands of animals for rescue. When she isn’t building companies or serving her community, Tina is spending quality time with her loved ones, reading, traveling, mentoring women in business and personal development, and teaching spin classes at Core Cycle Studios in Timonium.
[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]
Umar Hameed 0:06
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone. This is Umar Hameed, your host and welcome to the No Limits Selling Podcast where industry leaders share their tips, strategies and advice on how to make you better, stronger, faster. Get ready for another episode.
Umar Hameed 0:35
Hello everyone. Today I have the privilege of having my friend Tina Beliveau, here with me today. We're in this like, post apocalyptic place and so happy to be here.
Tina Beliveau 0:46
It's very fitting for the year we're having so great. Glad to be here.
Umar Hameed 0:50
Four days away from the election or five days away.
Tina Beliveau 0:53
Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, yeah, four days.
Tina Beliveau 0:56
Four days away...
Tina Beliveau 0:57
Three days if you don't count the actual Election Day,
Umar Hameed 0:59
Right.
Tina Beliveau 1:00
but it's counting?
Umar Hameed 1:01
And being a good host? The cameras pointed at you and I get like a side profile.
Tina Beliveau 1:05
Okay.
Umar Hameed 1:05
I'm gonna coin or something.
Tina Beliveau 1:06
Yeah. Well, you know,
Umar Hameed 1:07
Tina, the reason I was interested in sitting down with you today was this. It's like, who would be brave enough to do this? Because often on podcast, it's like, Hi, how are you? I'm an awesome person. I've done these awesome things. And as everyone goes, who isn't that nice? Yeah. But it would take somebody really strong to come on the air and talk about how you f up a lot of things because leadership is tough, right?
Tina Beliveau 1:30
It is really tough. It's been the toughest part of my professional journey, no question.
Umar Hameed 1:35
And so what I'd like for you to do is, you know, off the top of your head, think about some of the areas where you screwed up, and then we'll kind of chat about those. And we'll go down the list. And just so you know, beforehand, your frickin awesome. And you do amazing. Thanks for being vulnerable and transparent today.
Tina Beliveau 1:52
Oh! yeah. Thanks for that. So I had a, you know, a minute to think before we started talking about some of my....
Umar Hameed 1:58
Thoughts on you, right?
Umar Hameed 1:58
Yeah, that's great. And then I was like, Well, let me think about this. And you know, there's a lot there's a lot that I've learned. I've, so I'm 35 now, and I started hiring people when I was like, somewhere I don't know, between like 23 and 24. So learned a lot through trial by fire. Yes, I'm in the real estate industry. So most of my hiring has been in this face of running a real estate team, and then a real estate brokerage for about three years. And yeah, so where are you want to start?
Umar Hameed 2:25
Off the top of your head? What's one of the mistakes you made? Where you learn from?
Tina Beliveau 2:29
Okay, well, the first thing that comes to mind, and actually, whenever I think about this, it tends to all tie back to mindset. Yes. Which has been the thread through all of the mistakes that I could tell you about. But I'm feelimg....
Umar Hameed 2:40
...successes, right?
Tina Beliveau 2:41
Oh, and the successes.
Umar Hameed 2:42
Really cool.
Tina Beliveau 2:43
Yeah, it's two sides of the same coin. Like early mindset challenges that I had, and then that I sometimes see other wolves. see other people have a lot of the time are just those things we tell ourselves about leading or maybe even making that first hire?
Umar Hameed 3:00
Yes.
Tina Beliveau 3:01
In the very beginning, my first hire was an intern. So I was I hired somebody from Towson University where I went. And I think a lot of people forget that there are even options out there that fit their budget, even if their budget is zero.
Umar Hameed 3:14
Yes.
Tina Beliveau 3:14
And then, you know, one of the awkward things when I began hiring was how young I was. And I remember interviewing people
Umar Hameed 3:23
Older than you?
Tina Beliveau 3:23
that were much older than me. I mean, you know, like they were in their 40s, which can seem like a really big age difference, depending on the relative maturity of the two people in the mix.
Umar Hameed 3:34
So pause from there just for a moment, just think of that dynamic. So you're there thinking about how young you are.
Tina Beliveau 3:40
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 3:40
And the person on the other side might be thinking, who is this young punk? Or might be thinking, Oh, my God,
Tina Beliveau 3:46
How cool!
Umar Hameed 3:47
how cool or how smart?
Tina Beliveau 3:49
Yeah!
Umar Hameed 3:49
I hope I'm good enough to work with this person. And we think the worst of ourselves in terms of they must be thinking I'm less than when thinking you're awesome.
Tina Beliveau 3:57
Yeah. But I distinctly remember somebody being like, you're so young, and me just being like, yeah, like, to some degree, it's just like, kind of embracing it. But I still felt that like, extreme awkwardness at times, even seeing somebody and being like, okay,
Umar Hameed 4:12
I could just point out here for the listeners, you can't see this. But you're blushing right now...
Tina Beliveau 4:17
Of course I am.
Umar Hameed 4:19
That's re-experiencing is what we do as humans we really live...
Tina Beliveau 4:22
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 4:22
I could see you doing that in the interview that exact response coming up.
Tina Beliveau 4:27
Totally! Yeah, to this day, I can think about those things. Another funny one is I remember like, I think my my first like part time admin position I was offering $15 an hour, it might have been 20. Either way, I remember like I at the time, maybe I wasn't putting the pay in the ad. You know, there's different philosophies without whether you advertise and I just remember somebody being like, what like I got a gun. I was like mortified, because they just they weren't in my budget. And I think that's just confusing on many levels. I've hired a lot over the years and sometimes market, you know, right away. But it's just funny, like being super fresh and new to all those conversations. And I don't know, I just kind of walked through it and manage it the best I can, or could rather. But the other thing I was thinking about, and I kind of laughed about this too, before we started recording is I finally made a full time hire and like, so I had like some part time people like in the beginning...
Umar Hameed 5:27
Right.
Tina Beliveau 5:28
I remember the structure I did was I had somebody come Monday through Friday from like, 9am to 12. So it was like 15 hours a week. It was manageable for me, it was manageable for them. And then I made my first full time hire. And I I've blocked out what actually happened either she came on the first day and never came back. Or she never showed up. And that was my first hire. I was like, all excited. And then I it just was a complete flop and I had to start completely over completely.
Umar Hameed 5:53
Yeah!
Tina Beliveau 5:53
Like that would not happen.
Umar Hameed 5:54
your psyche in terms of like, Did you think it was you? Do you think it was then?
Tina Beliveau 5:58
Uh, so I tend to always think that it's me first and like, what did I do? What could I have done differently? And that's like a script that I've worked a lot more recently to, like rid myself of. But in a situation like that, it's like, you know, who accepts a job and then flakes like immediately like that had nothing to do with me?
Umar Hameed 6:18
Well, I job in a popsicle factory.
Tina Beliveau 6:21
Seriously?
Umar Hameed 6:22
Yeah. High School teenager is a summer job. And it turned out to be I can eat them. They're delicious. But something about the powder in the mix. I was actually allergic to it. And so after two hours, I got so sick, I had to leave. And they never sent me my two hour page. It was just like,
Tina Beliveau 6:39
Yeah, man, you cost them more than whatever. Yeah, it happens. So I think we all have those stories we tell ourselves. So in the beginning for me, it was like, I'm too young, or I can't afford this. I can't afford them. You know, I mean, that's just like a short sampling of mindset challenges.
Umar Hameed 6:55
Absaolutely.
Tina Beliveau 6:56
And I think there's some, you know, wisdom to just, you know, people say fake it till you make it, walk through it. Find a mentor, a sounding board, somebody who can, you know, just kind of be a support person while we like grapple through that like uncertainty.
Umar Hameed 7:12
Yeah. And what's kind of cool about this podcast, this episode is gonna be well, I thought I was screwed up. But that Tina?
Tina Beliveau 7:18
Oh, yeah, let me get Oh, we're just getting started. Yeah, these are little mistakes get juicy here. Um, okay. So another really big theme early on in my hiring journey before I got any training on not even leadership. But just like, I guess management was that I often had no clarity on exactly what I wanted somebody to do in their job, like day to day like I hadn't defined success. And I think so a lot of the time. These are like administrative type positions that I'm talking about, where it's kind of a weird thing with any business that's like growing and has a lot going on. If you're defining success, which I think just unconsciously, I did this. I was like, You do everything pretty much with like, 95% accuracy, and you check off everything on the list.
Umar Hameed 8:09
Yes.
Tina Beliveau 8:09
And, and also like, prioritize well, etc. And I think I did not get that, like when you're growing a business, there's going to be mess that just falls on the floor. And there needs to be alignment between you and the other person on what actually defines success. What drives revenue for the company, what drives customer service, which leads to happy customers and retention. I think there's like a couple different things, those like hard measurables, and also those soft measurables. But I think at the beginning, I wanted somebody to do everything like really, really well. Not quite perfect, but close to it. And I just so I wrote a wave of my emotions of how I felt they were doing than anything that we could kind of like point back to a some key performance indicators.
Umar Hameed 8:57
So let's kind of step back a little bit. And I'm just kind of guessing here...
Tina Beliveau 9:01
Yeah!
Umar Hameed 9:01
...but a lot of people tend to, well, if I was doing that job, this is what would be important to me. And I never would kind of map kind of what's happening internally for us on mere mortals that are not us.
Tina Beliveau 9:14
Yeah, exactly. And I think it's like, in that beginning, you know, three to six months phase, you need to have so much communication, a feedback loop. And again, like with growing businesses, communication about priorities that are shifting and changing, which I think is like a huge challenge.
Umar Hameed 9:31
How do you figure that out?
Tina Beliveau 9:32
You should talk about it, a lot!
Tina Beliveau 9:34
It's English priorities, you gotta priorities
Tina Beliveau 9:35
Yeah!
Umar Hameed 9:36
But it's likelike, what does it really mean? And you can't do that unless you have real life experiences, like we got this important thing and this important thing, and they don't know and then when you go, Oh, this is how you gauge it in this situation. All that valuable learning only happens if there's communications.
Tina Beliveau 9:52
Yeah, and I think there's kind of a couple pieces with that. You know, one of them is like, people might hate hearing this, but like, you have to Sometimes let somebody fall on the floor to learn a priority. Like if they never have that negative stimulus of like doing it in the right order, like, they might not get it. So we have to leave room for people to make mistakes, hopefully not ones that end your business. But there might be like a juicy mistake in there that like really teaches somebody something. And that's okay, as long as the communication and the relationship is there. And there's like, you know, some level of training plan around that.
Umar Hameed 10:26
So here's a question for you. So what you said is absolutely true. I suspect in Baltimore, let's say today, 10 people have that conversation.,,
Tina Beliveau 10:35
Oh yeah.
Umar Hameed 10:35
Okay to make mistakes. But how many of those 10 people do you think, will actually be there to support them when that happens? I think,
Tina Beliveau 10:42
Yeah, well, and I think it's a weird thing, too, because, you know, a lot of the time, so I'm using this, like, administrative example. But I think it's really relevant in that I am more of this, like, direct driver. Actually, this reminds me of a really good story. So I had somebody who worked for me, and she made a mistake. And she had her own mental script about mistakes...
Umar Hameed 11:05
Yes.
Tina Beliveau 11:05
...and she was a much less direct personality. And she was terrified of me. And she was like, new in the job and like, so our personality and behavioral styles were really different. And she basically messed something up, like, did something pretty dumb, and like, sent this email to a bunch of people who shouldn't have gotten it. And like, she pretended it didn't like she denied that it happened. And, you know, like, we could talk all about that. But I think like, the reality is, like, at the time, I didn't have the leadership experience to have like, complete compassion of like, she is so afraid she can't even..
Umar Hameed 11:39
Right.
Tina Beliveau 11:40
Own it?
Umar Hameed 11:41
Yup.
Tina Beliveau 11:41
And, like, if I look at that person, like, she is very talented, and has done great, like, that was not a reflection of her character. Like that was an isolated piece of what she was doing overall, but at the time, like, I made it mean a lot, if that makes sense.
Umar Hameed 12:01
Yeah! And it comes naturally. Because a lot of times, that's what we're trained, we don't really get leadership training. But that's the kind of stuff is like, you will do what I tell you your way I tell you.
Tina Beliveau 12:11
And I think people have a weird relationship with mistakes with, you know, what other people think of them. And it's kind of a quagmire. And I think like, if you don't have a really great relationship and a lot of trust with somebody, it's hard to like, walk through that nitty gritty. And I didn't have the skills then to be very elegant about it. I mean, we kept working together, and it was fine. But I remember just being kind of paranoid. It was just the first time someone had kind of like, embarrassed me on behalf of my business. And now I know that like, that's just gonna keep happening. Unless I want to do everything myself until I'm dead. And never have anyone work with me...
Umar Hameed 12:47
Yeah! or...
Tina Beliveau 12:47
...and that doesn't work. For me at least...
Umar Hameed 12:49
...frustrated with everybody around.
Tina Beliveau 12:51
Yeah! yeah! that like, I just had to give that up. Somebody was talking about that. She called it like the beasting when like, something happens in your business, and it just hurts and you're like, Oh, God, like, I'm mad. I'm embarrassed. I'm this, I'm that. And I was like, I don't know, I just got stung so many times, like, I don't feel it anymore. I mean, I feel certain things but I got over the like baby bees.
Umar Hameed 13:12
I will tell you my bee sting story. It was the end of the season or in Brooklyn, California. That's where we lived and a bee had gotten into our house and it was on the carpet and I stepped on it. And before it passed it. It stung me pretty badly on my foot. And my sister in law was there. And she's a healer. Mm hmm. And she goes, I've had her slices you know, urine uric acid will stop it from hurting. And she convinced me to go in the bathroom and pee on my foot. I came back out my wife and her eye rolling around the floor laughing..
Tina Beliveau 13:42
No!
Umar Hameed 13:44
...snookered me into doing something so dumb, but anyway.
Tina Beliveau 13:48
Well, that's what a bee sting will do to you. Right? Yeah, there are times we're out of our minds and do things that are maybe a little illogical because we're so caught up in like the temporary pain of you know, whatever it is a great example of that.
Umar Hameed 14:00
So what's next on the list?
Tina Beliveau 14:02
Okay, so yeah, it's just a kind of like, recap what I said. I think it's like when you don't know what you want from someone, it's easy to measure on your like how they're doing on your own emotional roller coaster. And then that can just be it's like living in a funhouse. Nobody's happy.
Umar Hameed 14:15
They're like, I have no idea what the goalpost is...
Tina Beliveau 14:18
Yeah!
Umar Hameed 14:19
..and it's just...
Tina Beliveau 14:20
Yeah. And I think I was even at times afraid to define the goalposts because then it's like, other mindset stuff, who am I to hold them accountable? Who am I to say that they need to do this, maybe they can only do that. So I think again, that's where all of that can kind of unfold. So that I think about that is like chapter one, like really early leadership then we get into like some of my juicy or mistakes where I think so there was like a long phase in my career like a 10 year run where I was like, all about growth in every way possible. I wanted to grow my business by a significant percentage every year...
Umar Hameed 14:58
Right.
Tina Beliveau 14:59
...I wanted to keep it Scheving, I didn't want to move backwards. And I, it was really fun. It was awesome. I accomplished, like some really huge things in partnership with the people that I worked with. But the reality is, if you're going to grow and like go hard to have year over year growth and keep adding people to your business, there are going to be times where people reach their comfort zone, where, and it's funny because I've been around a lot of different thought leaders who kind of poopoo this concept. And now I just feel so differently about it. So there's this, I think thing that happens where people cap out where they're now in the position that is right for them, or they don't want to work more hours, or they don't want to be the agent that sells 80 houses a year, they they're cool being the 40 house a year agent. And I have to say, I mean, I take ownership for this. And I also surround myself with people that sort of had this like, nasty attitude of like if they don't keep growing like you need to move on and find people who are more motivated and people more like you sort of this like narcissistic mindset. So and obviously I was kind of attracted to that mindset, because I listened to it. And I took it on as my own to some degree. And I think that so that was a huge mistake is that like when people hit their whatever, I don't even know exactly what to call it because I don't like comfort zone, maybe call it...
Umar Hameed 16:22
sweet...
Tina Beliveau 16:23
...or their sweet spot.
Umar Hameed 16:24
Yup.
Tina Beliveau 16:24
Like I'm really good at this. I like this. I like what I make I like the hours I you know, I'm passionate. I'm telling I'm really naturally good at this, why do I need to go do the hard thing. It's sort of like promoting a salesperson into a management role when that doesn't really make them happy. That's like a classic mistake that I've definitely made. And other people I know make a lot. So I think I didn't create paths for people to stay in their sweet spot. I wasn't seeing it the right way. And, and yeah, and like I missed out on retaining some talented people, because I was trying to like, move them to the next level so that I can move to the next level.
Umar Hameed 16:58
Yeah!
Tina Beliveau 16:59
Very selfish.
Umar Hameed 16:59
What's kind of interesting about that is, it's almost like we find these Junior people.
Tina Beliveau 17:04
Mm hmm.
Umar Hameed 17:05
We groom them, they get into their groove. And then at that point, it's like, I don't need you anymore. I used you, I abused you. And now you're out of here. And it may not be the intent, but that's what it probably feels like. It's like, Oh my god, now I'm not useful anymore. And there's no way to kind of the first thing we started off you were talking about compassion for people in such a critical element of leadership.
Tina Beliveau 17:28
Yes, it is. And I think, like one thing I've learned about myself is, I am deeply compassionate, when I slow down to actually feel my feelings and be in touch with how other people feel. And the speed at which I have moved or even the just the drive that's there that a lot of the time. It's like fear based, like a lot of my drive is like I have to be last year or I suck, I have to be last year I'm not reaching my potential or and letting people down. Like, we'll all have that. So my point is, like, when I'm caught up in those kind of loops, it's hard to be really present to like, the real deal, like how I feel and how someone else is doing. So it's sort of this, you know, just general concept, like, Oh, you need to make time for the people that you lead. But I think like what's underneath that is like, for me, it's like leaving emotional space to notice and be present to everything that's going on in the business.
Umar Hameed 18:25
I was at the ship team yesterday. And so I have to kick off their morning kind of power up...
Tina Beliveau 18:31
Yep.
Umar Hameed 18:31
...and the one yesterday was, like three critical areas. One was procrastination. second one was perfectionism. And third one was presence. And the reason I bring it up is that perfectionism is another form of procrastination. Oh, yeah. And relating back to what you said is sometimes we get so hopped up on, we're gonna grow faster, bigger. It's a way of avoiding something really important, which is being a good leader, you know, really fortifying what you've built. And that stuff's hard. And it's like, not the sexy stuff.
Tina Beliveau 19:04
Yeah, I actually, like I wrote a little blog post about this topic recently for a local real estate publication, Baltimore Real Producers. And it sort of that like that growth mindset is such a beautiful thing. But then it can get you into trouble for all the reasons that you just said. And I think like, another piece of it isn't even avoiding something. Like I guess it's avoiding something in a way. But what I think about is like, I look back at some of those times where I was just killing it. Like, I was in the zone, and I was making a difference. And the people who worked for me were in the zone. And there were so many times where I just couldn't feel it. Like I couldn't take it in and be like, look at what a good job I'm doing...
Umar Hameed 19:43
Yeah.
Tina Beliveau 19:43
...look at x, y, z. I could give so many examples. It was like, I mean, I don't even think it was on my radar. Like once in a while. I would be like we need to celebrate like so I would do little things or big things. I mean, there were a lot of like grand gestures like one time we like I took everyone on a shopping spree and gave them all a bunch of cash. To buy whatever they want to like, like I appreciated what they were all doing. But like I'm talking about on that, like really deep level, you were there was a part of me that was never like, look at this. This is enough. This is amazing. It was just always the striving.
Umar Hameed 20:16
And I've met people that very accomplished and they go, you know, I've never appreciated my accomplishments, because I was so busy trying to get the next and I didn't even know why I was doing it...
Tina Beliveau 20:27
Well, that's me, that's been 2020. For me, like looking back on the couple chapter like the two big accomplishment chapters in my career were when I had my first big growth in flux with my team. And then when I was growing, the real estate brokerage that I co owned and helped to grow. And I look back now and it's been uncomfortable, but also amazing, because the uncomfortable part is my mind is like, oh, you're done now like you're not important anymore. You're not a leader to 500 people like you're a nobody, like it's really left up. What my mind will tell me if I feel like I'm not.
Umar Hameed 21:03
Yeah, whatever it is, because you're talking to everybody.
Tina Beliveau 21:07
Like my mind will be like, you're nobody now like who even are you? So?
Umar Hameed 21:11
I'll reveal mine. Am to good looking people. I wish he was the one.
Tina Beliveau 21:19
Yes. Okay, so you just took me off track? That was so good. That was so freaking awesome. Um, so Okay, so there's like, that's been the negative aspect of kind of grappled with this fear of like having this like space, it's like the great in between of like, I'm on my way to my next chapter. And I'm, you know, worried about is it going to be as good as the last two or whatever. But I've also had the moments where I look back, and I'm like, look at that, like, I helped build the number one real estate office in Maryland, like I did that I did it with other people. It's not about me taking 100% credit, but like, I did that. And at one point, my team sold 177 homes in one year, like, you know, it's I don't so I don't know if what I'm saying is coming across, but I've had those moments of reflection. And that power slowing down being present. And and it's been really valuable. Because if I just kept going, like I maybe would never have had the wake up call that I've had this year
Umar Hameed 22:13
or a heart attack or Oh, yeah, God knows.
Umar Hameed 22:16
Yeah. All kinds of stuff.
Tina Beliveau 22:17
Yeah, yeah. Like my health, like, my health was suffering so much with the way that I was working. We were talking before we turned on, you know, sort of recording this thing about how like, I used to run my schedule, like, I had everything scheduled. And that was like how I measured success. And it wasn't like I didn't leave time to prepare or decompress from anything, I just went from one to the next and one to the next. So this has been the like a full year of preparation and decompressing, it's coming up on a year since I stepped out of that leadership role in like a week. And I'm like, I don't even know who I am anymore. But I've become a completely different person to some degree. Yeah, you know, creating paths for people to stay in the business when it's still growing, and just kind of the mindset of passion and all of that. And I think like there's a thread in that, that I wanted to pick back up with, of, you know, in my experience, like being really growth focused. And in the hustle and bustle, I didn't fully appreciate how hard people work when you're in a business that has any sort of like a startup energy or situation, like, like I knew it, but it was sort of like when it's the water, you're swimming, and all day every day you it's eventually, you know, I just got used to it. I took it for granted. I mean, I think there's a lot of like, small business stuff that people put up with that it looks fun on like Instagram and like a quick little bit. But the reality is, like, you know, people are like, Oh, I love wearing many hats. But the reality is, like wearing many hats is exhausting. Sometimes, you know, like, you're, I mean, I even remember like being frustrated that like nobody in the office, like whatever, take out the trash, like it would just sort of like explode like people didn't always like care for the physical environment of the office. But it's just like people were doing so much like I don't even know what I said, just made sense. But like, when you're in a small business environment, everybody has to pitch in. And it's not like a bureaucracy, where if you're missing for a week for a vacation, where like, your job is just kind of on hold, right? Like stuff needs to get done. So there's just a lot of pressure is I think what I'm trying to say. There's a lot that is riding on every person to be productive. And I just, again, it's the water, that's waters that I swam in a lot of the time and you I didn't always have the compassion and the realization of the impact that that had on people.
Umar Hameed 24:44
Definitely, because there are jobs you can go into in corporate America where it's like, smooth sailing compared to that. It's just like, Sure do that if you want extra thing, you're a hero. But when you're in a startup mode, it's not for everybody.
Tina Beliveau 24:56
Yeah. And so yeah, there's just not always enough people to cover So it just kind of that like that pressure cooker. So I think, you know, logically, I totally got what people were doing for the most part. But then I also think that there's a lot that people do that you can't see. And and you know, once in a while, you might have a rare team member who's maybe like a really heavy communicator that like reports back like, Oh, I did this. And I did that. And like I put that together, did it it did. A lot of people aren't like that. And there's a lot that they're doing that just goes on mentioned.
Umar Hameed 25:30
And let's deconstruct that.
Tina Beliveau 25:30
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 25:33
Our mothers told us not to brag...
Tina Beliveau 25:36
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 25:36
...so some people don't say it, because they'll think I'm bragging or you think, special. And on the other side is from the Talmud. It's like, we do not see the universe as it is we see it as we are. And it's like, well, this the way I do the job, I'd be like wearing 12 hats and not complaining. And that's what's expected. And that's what I assume other people want to do as well. And that all comes from leadership and communications and compassion. But you can't get there till you screw things up along the way. And you come by it, honestly.
Tina Beliveau 26:04
Yeah, so true. And I think I think what you said about people aren't naturally the types to brag and tout their accomplishments, especially the kind of people that are drawn to working in a team...
Umar Hameed 26:15
Right.
Tina Beliveau 26:15
...you know, I think the person who likes to brag and touted all as somebody like me, so I'm speaking maybe a little bit specific to the real estate context. But you've got that like, team owner Rainmaker. I hate that word sometimes. But that's like that personality. And the rest of the team members aren't like that. They're, they're more they're to be part of something bigger than themselves. They're helpers there. They've got like a servant's heart servants mentality. So, so yeah, there's a lot that goes unnoticed and acknowledged and appreciated a lot of the time.
Umar Hameed 26:18
And so you're a prima donna, by nature.
Tina Beliveau 26:49
I mean, it's just my wiring.
Umar Hameed 26:50
Yeah! There's other real leaders out there that think it's expected of them to be that person and be that larger than life, and you do it naturally authentically. And they have to pretend to be the leader everyone thinks they should be. And there's no rules for that, but they get trapped in the same trap as the worker bees underneath.
Tina Beliveau 27:11
Yeah, it's probably just kind of the reverse of that. And I think, you know, that's not necessary. You know, being a, you know, strong personality is, you know, people, like, if I think about the feedback that I've gotten from people over the years, there are times where they were just intimidated by my personality, or my accomplishments, like people, we're all comparing ourselves to each other all the time. So you know, like, like I had kind of referenced before, I used to run my schedule, like really tight with a lot packed into every day. So like, I was pumping out an insane amount of productivity all day, everyday, seven days a week into the night for a really long time. And, you know, people would look at that and compare themselves and feel inadequate, or like, like, people would literally be like, I can't keep up with you. Right. And in my mind, I would be like, why not. But it was another point that I wanted to make that I think connects to that is, I never really fully got for a long time, that people will never be quite as invested as me, in my business as I am. And I think there's sort of this, I don't even know, I think it's common in like my millennial age bracket, where like, everybody wants to be really connected to their work and have a great culture and have so much passion. And all of that is beautiful, and it's very aspirational. And at the same time, I think it can create this idea that like as a leader, if I haven't got everyone like bought in, like so deeply that like I've failed, or why aren't they showing up that way? And I think like everything in life and with people there's a little bit of a paradox there like you want buy and you want good culture. But I also think this like idealistic vision that like everybody should just be in the trenches and willing to do whatever it takes, like, almost like we're going to war mentality. Like, that's crazy. It's not sustainable.
Umar Hameed 29:04
So the first part of the sentence says that long cut a little when you were talking about, you know, like getting the word wrong, but it was like, you know, everybody, when you said that word, listen back to the recording you voice quavers there.
Tina Beliveau 29:18
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 29:19
Because you're accessing back to that time in your life where it was overwhelming. And so we carry that baggage around with us. Yeah, the question is, what did we do with it? Do we let it various or do we learn from it and become better leaders? And of course, you and I, both on the team have Let's learn from it and move forward.
Tina Beliveau 29:36
Yeah, and I think like a big part of, I've always been someone who's more apt to share the knowledge share, even overshare. But as like an achiever personality, I'm less wired to share all of the mistakes. So for me like being on a podcast with this topic is is growth so like, I think that that baggage and those old things that like I'm not proud of and I wish they had happened and I wish I'd done it better, blah, blah, blah. Like, the only way that I really release myself from it is by talking about it and it not being a secret at all.
Umar Hameed 30:09
Absolutely. And I think the one thing I'd add to it for people listening, is just ask this one simple question. What was the universe trying to teach me in that situation? And what can I learn from that situation. And once you get that lesson, you can move on and you're destined to repeat it. It's when you don't learn the lesson. And so I was a horrible thing, that will never happen again. But if you didn't learn the lesson, I guarantee 100% of the universe will conspire to let you relive it, but in a more intense focus..
Tina Beliveau 30:37
I'll come back stronger so yeah!
Umar Hameed 30:38
Boy! You know she's got it.
Tina Beliveau 30:39
Yeah, I mean, I can think of a couple patterns like that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that kind of ties to the next mistake of not fully appreciating the cost of turnover. Yeah. And this might be a little bit unique to my industry, and some of the culture from like, my former company that I surrounded myself with. And I kind of referenced this before, I think in part one, that there was sort of this, like, take no prisoners, no holds barred kind of leadership mentality that was champion of like, keep moving forward, keep growing. And if people can't keep up with you, that's fine. Just replace them. Haha, like, just replace them. And I think like, that is a fallacy. Like, the cost of turnover is really high. And it's funny, cuz that same company would also do this, like cost of turnover exercise, where we would kind of quantify it. But like, the reality is, I think about, you know, when someone's been in your organization for a year or more, and they were a performer, they are bringing a lot to the table, especially with these, like small businesses like that I'm kind of using as an example, they tend to be a significant percentage of the company's production, whether that's operational production, sales or something else. And they have a lot of what do you even call it like subject matter knowledge...
Umar Hameed 30:45
Institutional knowledge, all that stuff...
Tina Beliveau 31:08
...institutional knowledge that yeah, that, you know, unless you're psycho, like no small business really has any of that that well documented?
Umar Hameed 32:13
Yeah.
Tina Beliveau 32:13
And I'd say psycho in a complimentary way...
Umar Hameed 32:15
...and even in large companies, they fail to do that.
Tina Beliveau 32:17
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 32:18
So how do we do that? I don't know. Bill used to do it somehow.
Tina Beliveau 32:21
Yeah. Hopefully, you'll figure it out a year from now. And like, you won't write it down, either. But yeah, you know, maybe like, that's how it is. So I think, you know, that is a huge thing. And so it's like I always cognitively understood that turnover isn't helpful. And obviously, you know, you're good people stay and all of that. And and, you know, there's a lot of reasons that people move on. But I think the reality is that, you know, this idea of like a really highly productive sales person has moved on all just replace them and keep rolling. And that's fundamentally mostly true, I guess. But the reality is, there's a big slowdown if you don't have someone, not just on the bench, but already on the team ready to like, step right into that. So there's, there's a lot to replace there.
Umar Hameed 33:07
So outside of real estate, if it was like another industry, where you've got a salesperson that's got a tertiary, they say it costs 250% of their annual salary, to replace them. Because even if you get a seasoned salesperson coming in, in a new territory to learn your company's processes, the customers plus hiring that person. And if it's just an average person, they say about 100% of their annual salary, because you're taking a senior VP off their task to interview a bunch of people to maybe throw something so yeah,
Tina Beliveau 33:38
GMO for doublecosts, right. Yeah. It's like the loss of the production and, and the onboarding, but then also the loss of the time of the person who should be doing something else, like their time is literally reallocated.
Umar Hameed 33:48
The other thing just to add to it, I know we want to make this quick, but why not? Is your previous company will not be named. Mm hmm. But that's a typical kind of example where there's values written on the wall. Like we stand for ABCD. But the reality is B is only to be valued unless it costs us money. Yeah, I'm talking about we value people and people are everything. But you know, hey, if you're not working out, get rid of a mold. Get a new one. fast enough. Yep. And so the real colors come out of who we are.
Tina Beliveau 34:19
Yeah. And you know, I've been out so now I think that's part of why like, this hit home so deeply with me like, I've been that highly productive performer, a champion and advocate someone who poured my soul oils. I yeah. And I poured so much in. And then when I how do I even say this? I was on the other end of that bargain. For the first time, I had been the leader who didn't fully appreciate and then I had that experience and then also just like, kind of that like reality check of like, I am nowhere near as important as I thought I was like, Whoa, okay. What do I do with that? And like, and who am I without that platform? But coming back to that, like, I think that Yeah, like, it's really easy to say that you value culture and doing the right thing. And then the reality is that like business problems, create a lot of gray area with that. And people deal with those things differently. And I've taken those lessons. And...
Umar Hameed 35:18
...so before we go to the next one, I will just, I can't help myself. I have to tell you this, but I think it was Ditka one of the football players who was talking about how unconscionable it is to go after another player's wife, or girlfriend.
Tina Beliveau 35:31
Mm hmm.
Umar Hameed 35:31
Well, unless she's really cute or something.
Tina Beliveau 35:35
Enter, they enter the gray area, right?
Umar Hameed 35:37
Yeah!
Tina Beliveau 35:37
Yeah, yeah, we'll leave that there.
Umar Hameed 35:39
Yeah.
Tina Beliveau 35:41
Okay, so I thought of a couple other mistakes that I'll share before this. So next one, is when you're the boss, not everybody loves you, which I know might sound really obvious, but when it's actually happening to you, and you are the boss, and you're the one where there's even this concept, I think is a john Maxwell thing of like, there's different levels of leadership. But the first one is positional, that it simply means like, you're the boss. And they're not because that's like the positions that you hold in the company. And this happened, it will kind of happen at the same time with both my my real estate team and the brokerage. But it was sort of like when I became a manager in the brokerage. It was like, suddenly I was everyone's mom,
Umar Hameed 36:24
Right.
Tina Beliveau 36:25
Like, I was not like one of the gang anymore. And that was just like an adjustment. And...
Umar Hameed 36:33
maybe not mom, maybe step mom?
Tina Beliveau 36:36
Oh, yeah, totally! Yeah, there are definitely some people that were like, Who is this person? I really like this other person. I don't like her personality. She's annoying. She walks too fast down the hallway. She doesn't say hi to me, she forgot my name again. Like, I could go on and on with, like, all the ways that like, I don't resonate with people at times. But um, yeah, but it was like, I was not one of the gang I wasn't in, if that makes sense. I was out I was on the outside. And maybe up a layer, if you're looking at like positions is a ladder. But you know, it's just, it's a weird place to be. It's lonely. And I think the other thing as a leader is we're always trying to create, impact and engage people. And I think just that like vulnerable experimentation of like, let's get this together. Let's do this initiative. And like, sometimes it's just like crickets. Like, I tried so many different things. And I'm grateful for it. Because again, like, we talked about the bee stings on part one of this, like, that was like a bee sting of like planting something. And then people being like, that sucks. Like...
Umar Hameed 37:35
Yeah,
Tina Beliveau 37:35
...I'm not even responding to that post that she made. And like, I just don't care anymore. But I had to be stung so many times of like, attempting to engage and, and be a resource for people. And again, like, I think it was kind of a good training ground when I was running the brokerage because I was not anyone's boss. You know, realtors are all 1099 contractors, they don't owe me anything. So it's finding a way to have influence. When I didn't actually have...
Umar Hameed 37:35
It goes back to that you need to slow down, you need to connect, you need to be compassionate.
Tina Beliveau 37:51
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 37:54
...And if you do that, you're got your finger on the pulse. And if you're just in leadership mode, it's like, oh, this is, this is what I think. And this would be right for them. And sometimes you need to do that. But you need to be connected if you're not connected with the people you're leading. Because a lot of times, it's about respect. And we want our people that were leading to respect us, but it starts with us respecting them.
Tina Beliveau 38:29
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 38:29
It comes from listening and slowing down.
Tina Beliveau 38:31
Yeah. And you know, there's an intrinsic challenge in the position that I held, I had a huge quota.
Umar Hameed 38:36
Yes.
Tina Beliveau 38:36
I had to meet with 10 new people that I'd never met with before, every single week. And if I went on vacation, I had to like, catch up. So, you know, I take ownership for the fact that I didn't always connect with people the way I wanted. And that was also something that was really unsustainable about the role I was in because to meet 10 new people a week, you have to prospect and follow up for hours every day, especially when you've kind of like run through everybody in Baltimore?
Umar Hameed 39:04
10 people means a 100 active things to do to get to the 10 digit.
Tina Beliveau 39:08
Yeah, yeah. So I think you know, I, you know, I look back at that model. And first of all, I would never work that way again, in a million years. I'm grateful for what I did. I love the lessons that I learned. There was also a lot of like getting over myself that I walked through being rejected, sometimes kindly, and sometimes not so kindly. So I take those lessons. But I guess my point is, like, when you're grinding like that, it ties to what we've talked about. It's hard to connect and come from a place of value and attraction, which is what I'm obsessed with now. And that's how I built my first business really successful
Umar Hameed 39:40
Nice.
Tina Beliveau 39:40
So to come full circle back to the mistake, people aren't going to love you, it can get lonely. That's part of it. And that's why, you know, it's so important to have a tribe of other people that are, you know, on the same journey, so it may not be the people in your company, it's other business owners, peers, mastermind groups, whatever. And then just knowing that that's part of it. It's not like a personal failing. Like that's just a dynamic of positional leadership...
Umar Hameed 40:03
Find the right group, they're going to support you when you need support.
Tina Beliveau 40:06
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 40:06
...and they're gonna say, You're being an idiot. And...
Tina Beliveau 40:09
Exactly!
Umar Hameed 40:10
..when it's that other group to help you.
Tina Beliveau 40:12
Oh, and I'm so glad you said that you're being an idiot thing, because that's the thing when you're in a positional leadership situation with somebody and you're their boss, and they're your employee, and both of you know it. They're never going to say, you suck yet idea sucks. Like, they might once in a while, but I remember being like, Why don't people tell me, duh duh duh duh duh, and and I heard somebody saying it, I was actually I put this like, women's networking group together. We all got together, like a month ago. And she was saying, I just don't understand why they don't tell me I was like, they're never going to tell you. Because they're in a different position. They're never going to feel I mean, they might like, if you're an amazing culture and trust builder, maybe they will. But I think at the end of the day, there are people that are shy, that are less direct, and they're not going to tell you to your face. How much all your ideas suck.
Umar Hameed 40:56
The guy that started the MGM, the movie studio,
Tina Beliveau 40:59
Mm hmm.
Umar Hameed 40:59
One of his quotes goes something like this. I don't want any Yes-Man, I want people to tell me what's really going on, even if it gets some fired.
Tina Beliveau 41:06
Yeah, exactly. And people are like, and that's why I'm not gonna say no. Okay, so last thing is, I'll end on whatever, I don't even know what to call this. No, but sometimes you just have to lose things to appreciate them. And, and we touched on this in part one, but I think, you know, this year 2020, for me, has been the great in between, and, you know, looking back at the accomplishments that I've made, and, and having that space to say that was great. And if I hadn't, I wouldn't say that I lost the last thing that I did. I willingly walked away and said, I want to do something different. I want to, you know, change a whole bunch of things about what I'm doing and who I'm working with, and all of that, but to look back in it, and in some ways, it's like, okay, like, I didn't fully appreciate that, but I do now. And I guess that's just the beauty of growth, aging perspective, whatever you want to call it. But it's the silver lining. If nothing else, I'm looking back and saying okay...
Umar Hameed 42:03
What's the lesson?
Tina Beliveau 42:04
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 42:05
Always comes back there. And it kind of reminds me of that song. You don't know what you got till it's gone. They paved paradise, and they put up a parking lot.
Tina Beliveau 42:12
Yeah.
Umar Hameed 42:14
Tina, thank you so much for sitting down with me. I appreciate you and I appreciate your transparency and bravery. Thank you.
Tina Beliveau 42:20
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Umar Hameed 42:27
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to iTunes and leave a five-star rating. And if you're looking for more tools, go to my website at nolimitsselling.com. I've got a free mind training course there, that's going to teach you some insights from the world of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and that is the fastest way to get better results.