Mike Saunders is a speaker, bestselling author of four books, and a successful business coach who holds an MBA in Marketing. Mike is also an Adjunct Marketing Professor at several Universities and a member of the Forbes Coaches Council.
He has interviewed hundreds of industry experts on his podcast and is always striving to learn from other thought leaders. Mike is most passionate about seeing his family grow up with high spiritual values and providing them opportunities to succeed in life. He is heavily involved in his local church and is focused on teaching others the benefits of giving and serving.
[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]
Umar Hameed 0:03
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone. My name is Umar Hameed and welcome to the No Limits Selling Podcast, where we explore mindset, how leaders grow their people, their teams, their organizations, and their revenue. Looking for more. Join us on the mindset boosters group, you'll find the link in the show notes. And now, let's get on with the show.
Mike Saunders 0:41
Hello, everyone. Today I've got the privilege of having Mike Saunders here today he is the authority afficionado if you want to authority in your space, Mike is the guy to talk to Mike, welcome to the program.
Mike Saunders 0:53
Thank you, Umar. Good to be here. Happy to chat with you today.
Umar Hameed 0:57
Man, Your voice sounds like you could be a radio announcer.
Mike Saunders 1:02
Well, I've actually gotten that for many, many, many years. Even I distinctly remember the first time someone said that was when I had my first job out of college working at a rental car company. And I was like, Okay, well, I guess I do. But but I do have my own podcast, I've done 560 episodes. So I'm very fluent in talking with a microphone.
Umar Hameed 1:22
Brilliant. So one of the things we're talking about is very much how to get authority. Because the reality is if you're a celebrity, also known as an authority in your field, that the world bends over backwards for you. And when you're not, you're at a disadvantage.
Mike Saunders 1:38
Yeah. And it doesn't matter what industry you're in. It doesn't matter whether you own your own business, or you're a salesperson working for a company, People need to realize something that it really is one of these iconic phrases. People want to do business with those that they know, like and trust. Well, how do they get to know you? Well, that's networking. How do they get to like you that's developing relationships? And then how do they trust you? Well, sometimes that aspect of developing trust is a matter of being seen as trust worthy, maybe being seen as that expert, meaning, you know, like, here's an example. What if I said, I've got the greatest solution to whatever that you need? Go ahead and email me at Mikesaunders@aol.com. You go. Yeah, I mean, forget about that. So you've got to have a positioning in the mind of your prospects, that shows that you know what you're talking about.
Umar Hameed 2:33
Dig deeper into that in a moment, I just wanted to share a life experience I had for charity, I decided I would scale down a building like rappelled down. And it was really high up, and it seemed really cool thing to do in theory, but when I went up on top of the building, and they putting on this harness stuff on me, and all of a sudden, it's like, I don't know these people, but because I trusted the director of the Baltimore chapter of the National Kidney Foundation, that I leveraged her trust into these people to allow me to do that. And my illusion is when you develop authority in what you do, it lets the customer leverage your trust, to make that decision.
Mike Saunders 3:17
100%. And here's, here's an example. Um, I had this person I was interviewing on my podcast a couple years ago, and he was he had immigrated from another country, I believe it was Israel. And he gave me this example. And he said, You know what, I came to this country, I knew I need to get an immigration attorney. And I knew that I needed to get it done really quickly. So I started asking my network, so I got some referrals. And this one person told me, oh, here's the card of this guy that I want to, that I would recommend to you. And then this other friend of his said, here's this card of someone. In fact, he's giving a keynote speech down to this luncheon at the chamber this weekend. And he goes, Okay, cool. I'm going to call this one and I'm going to go see this one. So we go into the legend, he listened to the immigration attorney speak, and the one that had the business card set free consultations, the one that gave the keynote speech said we charge for our consultations $100 he chose to pay the money. And he said, I I found myself trusting this person more and why he goes because he was up there speaking. Now, that is how you people are wired. We are wired to see people in the limelight, not the CNN, you know? Yeah, you don't have to be that. But if you get a speaking engagement, live or virtual, it doesn't matter. If you're speaking to a group, they tend to trust you a little bit more. If you're being interviewed or have your own podcast, they tend to trust a little bit more. If you use a book and go hey, you know what, as we wrap up our call or our meeting today, I'm going to leave a copy of my book, read through this and then when we meet next time, we can go over some of my recommendations. Now all of a sudden, they know you're not a hack, trying to give them a trifold glossy brochure, that's all that you have.
Umar Hameed 5:05
And the thing is like when you are speaking, you need to be intelligent, you don't need to be perfect. But you need to have the right intentions being up there, because some people are up there. And it's like, blatant that I'm here selling to you. And I'm trying to get customers and you can just pick up that vibe. So let's backtrack a little bit, because I think it all starts with, I'm not sure if you know this, Mike, but my baby is beautiful, is the most beautiful baby in the world. And if you looked at it, you'd kind of go, that's not enough. That's an ugly baby. So oftentimes, when you're helping people, whatever they're selling, whatever they're doing, they pitch it in a certain way. That makes sense to them. But you have to go well, that's not going to work for other people. So tell me about one of those times where you help somebody position what they were doing in a way that got people more attracted to it.
Mike Saunders 5:50
I teach people to say, okay, we've heard expert and authority and you cannot say you are the expert in authority, because people don't want to hear that, right. You need to exude that you need to have the competence of being that expert and authority. And it needs to be done in the right manner. So the way to solve it, which is interview question is this, you need to be the educator, and the advocate for your target audience. So whatever you sell, whatever service product doesn't matter, don't sell, don't tell, educate, teach, and show the misconceptions, the pros and the cons, all of these things. Right? Have you ever read the book, the ultimate sales machine by Chet Holmes?
Umar Hameed 6:30
I am actually listening, listening to it for the 20th time probably started yesterday again.
Mike Saunders 6:35
So then the answer would be yes, times 100. So yeah, one of he was one of the first ones that kind of created the concept of, don't be pushy, pull people toward you, teach be an educator. And so what happens is, when you do that the other salespeople that are pitching your prospect, they're pushy, and they're telling and then they get attracted to you. Because it's like, then you just seem like you know what you're talking about, because you explain kind of the pros and the cons and how it might not work and how it does work into consider this. And hey, here's this report that we see online that will help you make your decision. And who are they going to choose the guy that's just pounding them to say, by now, or the one that's going, Hey, you ought to consider that. So when you can be the educator, the advocate, and they see your authority, because here's something really interesting. The message is the medium is I like to use this color, or the message is the medium, meaning this, let's say that you're selling, you know, widget a and you know that you really have the best widget to solve their needs. And you don't want to be that salesperson you want to educate? Well, you can, you know, craft this wonderful educational piece of content, whatever that might be. Let's just call it an article. And it's like the manifesto on why people need to choose you for this widget thing. And you hand it to someone as a piece of paper. That's nice. Or you put it up on your Facebook as a post people, people kind of yawn at that, because it's like, yeah, Facebook, they all you could put it up on your website on your WordPress website, people yawn at that, because it's like, whatever a blog post. But what if that same piece of content was a chapter in a book that you're handing them? And they go, Hey, I was just featured in this book called expert profiles. I talked about that, is that top of that you're mentioning, read through this chapter here. And then this talk next week, now all of a sudden, it's like, oh, really, okay. You're another, or the content in that, you know, Manifesto, let's say you're interviewed about that on a podcast. So now you could have on Facebook Live, YouTube Live, and people yawn, because it's like, anyone could do that. Right? It's very entry, low, free, but but they don't appreciate that as much as Oh, you're interviewed on this podcast, and you're gonna let me listen to that episode. And I'm, and I can, on my own time, get my make my own thoughts. And then you follow it up and go, Hey, what do you think the medium where that message is? That platform is serious authority, you gotta carries authority in it positions you so powerfully, and none of these things need to take a lot of time or cost a lot of money.
Umar Hameed 9:05
Brilliant, but you still got to have the right messaging to get on to the medium. So how do you help people craft ? Yeah, hey, I sell insurance. And I want to come on your show. It's like, thanks for No thanks. So how do you get them to be? Or do you get them to articulate who they are? So they stand out amongst the crowd, and then from that they leverage mediums and write books.
Mike Saunders 9:28
You know, I think that's going to come with time. And they have to have a full full full understanding of the target audience and their solution to the problem that their target target audience has, and using as an example, life insurance. Nobody wants to buy life insurance, but I remember years ago, this example so maybe you'll appreciate this. What if I said, Hey, Umar. I've got something really interesting for you, and I've got it. This is really real. I've got this machine that I want to bring over to your house and I'm going to lease it to you. And I'm going to put it down to the basement and it cranks out $100 bills. And it's not counterfeit. It's $100. Bill. Now it's fictitious, obviously story. But if you knew that this was $100 bills, not counterfeit, and you, you know, we're going to be cranking out downstairs 24 seven, and you said, you're going to, I'm going to lease it to you, yeah, I'm going to pay that. And then maybe I charge you a little bit more for the maintenance package. Because once a month, I need to come out. And I'd make sure everything's greased up and everything right, so you keep getting those $100 bills, you would go, yeah, I didn't sell you anything I provided you, you know, money. Well, life insurance is the same way, you are protecting the machine that makes money, you, if you die, you don't make money for your to support your family. So I'm putting this thing in place called a life insurance policy. We'll talk about variables and all that. And I'm going to charge you a little bit of money so that it preserves things for you now, and later in case something happens to your families take care. Now I don't sell ligatures never have. But I just loved that example. So to answer your question, Umar, how do you articulate your messaging, that's an art form. And it takes practice. And it takes time. And you have to, you know, draw people into a story. So they go, Oh, yeah. So whatever it is that you sell, you need to know how to talk about it. But then you need to be able to talk about on the right platforms to get noticed.
Umar Hameed 11:18
Brilliant, and I think a couple of things you did there was you got a metaphor that everyone understands, I want that $100 machine. And I would pay anything less than what the machine is going to pump out. So that makes sense. And then using that as a metaphor that people understand and want and acquainting it to what you're selling, is a great way to communicate what you're doing. And I think it takes it's an art form. And it is an ongoing process of crafting that message and refining as you go.
Mike Saunders 11:50
100% saying, guess what you got to do, you got to test it, test it, test it, see what who responds, you're always tweaking, you're always, you know, like, as an example, here's something else in wordsmithing in copywriting and messaging, you know, I can help you increase your business from x to y. Well, maybe psychologically, you don't feel like you want help. I'm not broken. So the better word is empower, hey, I empower entrepreneurs to. And so now that kind of feels way better, because you don't need help. You're you're not broken. So it's learning how to kind of use the right phrasing and wording and things like that.
Umar Hameed 12:25
Learning human psychology, because at the end of the day, that's what we're talking about is, you know, how can you get authority in your space. And the real way you get it is by doing a lot of it. And the only way you can get to do a lot of it is if people see you as an authority, and they give you at bats to do it. So it's the chicken and the egg conundrum. And you help people accelerate that process. So they get a level of authority that they can actually start doing more, making more money, helping more people getting better at their craft.
Mike Saunders 12:57
100%. That's, that's what I as the authority positioning coach, that's what I help people do. Be seen as that expert in that authority, so that it makes them be the obvious choice to their target audience. I mean, that's really what it boils down.
Umar Hameed 13:11
I want you to profile two people for me, two real people don't mention their names. One person that came and they got help from you. They got they got authorized. And then they used it in the correct way to leverage their brand, leverage their business, walk us through that example. Then I'm gonna ask you for a counter example, somebody that you led to the water, but they would not drink. So let's go with the first one first.
Mike Saunders 13:38
Well, the first one is an example. I'm working with a company now and I put together this power point and I'm like, Well, hey, let's, um, you know, show this example of what you know this will do to help you out? Well, I pulled up this case study, because I've got hundreds of testimonials. I've got about a dozen case study. So I pulled one up in the financial services industry, which is what I'm working in with this client. And so here's this client, he's an independent Rep. He contacted me, he said, I need help with all of this. And so I said, wonderful. I'm going to do something for you that will take 20 minutes of your time. That's it on the phone. And I'm going to turn it into this powerful package and teach you how to use it. He's like, got me so far. Cool. So I interviewed him on my podcast, and I spotlighted his business what set him apart what makes him so special what he does for clients, why people should listen to him, and then he loved it. Right. Okay, we hung up after 20 minutes and I sent him a few days later the link to the podcast or the syndications when made a little podcast graphic, and then I wrote up a press release that showed him his name and his company spotlighted on my podcast and he approved the pod on the press release, you know, because I'd already written it up and he and he proved that and then I got it into syndication. And so that was wonderful. And then I took the interview that he did, and I transcribed it and cleaned it up and smooth it out so it read nice and smooth and I turned that into a featured chapter in my Amazon best selling book series called Expert Profiles. And all of this was done in about a two week period with him doing one thing, a 20 minute phone call, and I delivered this pocket back to him showed him how to use it. And the case study that he sent back to me and the example was, Hey, I just want to let everyone know that what Mike does is affordable, make sense is powerful. And here's what it did for me, I was meeting with this couple about their financial planning. And of course, it's very competitive. So I left a copy of the book with them. And the next day, they called me and hired me because they said, I learned things about you from this book that I never would have before. And in his testimony, he was like, I never had that happen before. And I, I now have the tools to make myself look like that expert. And all that was done quickly in a two week time frame, and simply with a 20 minute phone interview. So it's how you use it. And then I guess the antithesis is this, you can lead the horse to water, you can't make them drink. So I can do all of that. And I can say here's this package, and I do a coaching call after this package is done. And I teach them, okay for this in this in this all here's how to implement your business simple ways, things you're already doing how to already how to integrate what you're already doing, and and integrate these not a whole new thing, just here's how you can use this. And all I could do is give it to you, I can't make you do it. I can't do it for you because I don't have the emails for the incoming emails from people that to say, Oh, thank you for booking this call with me. But here's an example. Here's example how to implement that. Let's say that you have this booking call with someone for a week from next Tuesday. And you're going to be meeting by phone or in person. And it's to you know, learn about whatever you sell, right, whatever the package is. And now all of a sudden you send them an email going, Hey, you know, your appointment is booked. It's scheduled and confirmed. I look forward to meeting with you. Oh, by the way. In the meantime, between now and the time we meet, I thought you might like to take a listen to this podcast interview I was interviewed on and here's a couple media mentions were picked up. And then here's a link to my, my book that I've mentioned where you, you know, read about my blah, blah, blah. Did they listen to every syllable of the podcast interview? Probably not. Did they read every word? Probably not. But the fact that it was there, they clicked on there like, You're okay, that's legitimate. Now you go to that meeting phone or in person. And they view you not as a salesperson, but as a trusted adviser. So it's how you pre frame yourself. It's all in how you use things. So yeah, the one example was rock star, he just put it into action. The antithesis is you got to do it. You got to do simple things to build your business. Well, isn't that way better than doing a blast email and sending out you know, a power point presentation? Yeah, these are powerful tools. You just have to learn how to use them in your business.
Umar Hameed 17:48
Absolutely. I think just adding to sending out a link to the podcast. With the tools you have nowadays, you can actually know when the person is listening to it.
Mike Saunders 17:57
Umar Hameed 17:59
It's like they're listening to you right now. And I'm going to send them one other piece of like, the press release, oh, this was in this article. And all of a sudden they get a Oh my god, it must be divine intervention. I got this. Yeah. So how much does it cost to play to have a package like that?
Mike Saunders 18:17
It all depends on how you know what levels you want. But I've got a basic package that I call authority boost, where I do the interview, the multimedia press releases syndication, and the coaching call $497. Simple, I mean, that's easy.
Umar Hameed 18:33
What is the full monthly look like?
Mike Saunders 18:35
The full one that I mentioned there, where you do the interview, the press release, and then the feature chapter in the book is 1597.That's very, very unbelievable.
Umar Hameed 18:44
So I can spend $5,000, or $10,000 in advertising, and maybe I get some leads, I spent a fraction of that and get authority. And all of a sudden I'm seen as different person. It's like a frickin no brainer, right?
Mike Saunders 19:02
And I'll I'll take it one step further. You can spend the 5000 or whatever for some Facebook or Google ads that get you maybe a leader junk or whatever. But guess what happens when you stop paying that machine? Poof, the ads go away. Now, here's something here's something really interesting. Yes, to your point, it's a no brainer. 1500 dollars for that full package. And you've got tangible assets. And here's another bit, Google indexes, the podcast, interview.
Umar Hameed 19:31
Mike Saunders 19:32
The press release. And so now here comes people googling you because maybe you're in whatever industry and they Google your name and your business, and they want to see what's up and they see this interview, they see this. Now. Now that's long term. I call them authority positioning assets. That's not a poof ad campaign. That's an asset that Google is positioning that you can use deliver down the road. And that example of the botanical services guy that I mentioned, I did this for this presentation. And I googled his name and business. This was about two weeks ago. And I did the screenshot. And there were three listings on Google page one for his name and his business. Because if someone were to Google him, what are they gonna see? Well, they see his website, his LinkedIn, of course, but they saw the interview I did with him, they saw the press release I did with him. And they see another link for another interview of where someone else picked it up on page one of Google and I did that interview a year and a half ago. So it's got long term legs. And and I think that that becomes something that you go Hold on. We're blowing money on these campaigns that who knows what we're getting. Or we could get a tangible long term asset that we can use right now in our business so that people view as differently, and we can now have more at bats and more effective at bats and close more sales.
Umar Hameed 20:50
Brilliant. Mike, thanks so much for coming on the show you summed up exactly how we can all get more authority, get more sales, and hopefully get more happiness out of life.
Mike Saunders 21:01
You got it? Would it be alright, if I left my website address?
Umar Hameed 21:06
Please do but we're gonna put it in the show notes, so people can click on it, complete with a mugshot of you.
Mike Saunders 21:11
Oh, that's scary. Well, you can go to authoritypositioncoach.com and learn more about my program, there's a little download, you can download the authority positioning Manifesto, which is a 52 page PDF that is just chock full of helpful tips and that'd be really wonderful to learn from.
Umar Hameed 21:28
Brilliant Once again, thanks so much.
Mike Saunders 21:30
Umar Hameed 21:36
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to iTunes and leave a five-star rating. And if you're looking for more tools, go to my website at nolimitsselling.com. I've got a free mind training course there, that's going to teach you some insights from the world of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and that is the fastest way to get better results.