Martin Brossman is a leading authority on Linkedin, Reputation Management, and building a positive digital presence. He has collectively over 10,000 followers. Just Google his name!
Brossman is a business coach, consultant, and a dynamic trainer known for his insight and humor. A member of the National Speakers Association, Martin is a popular speaker on effective and safe online reputation enhancement and professional development topics. He regularly teaches statewide for towns, communities, and schools in North Carolina. He also provides customized coaching and training for individuals and groups, integrating digital media, professional networking, and reputation management. Integrating success on the ground and on the web.
His 20 years of professional experience includes 7 years with IBM, where he received the "IBM Means Service" top customer service award, and 13 years developing and operating small businesses. Coaching since 1995, he developed a certification / mentoring program for Coaches in 2003. He holds a BS in Math / Computer Science from St. Andrews College in Laurinburg, N.C., and currently resides in Raleigh, NC.
Corporate clients and organizations Martin has worked with include: IBM, SAS, GlaxoSmithKline, Environmental Protection Agency, Association of Proposal Management Professionals, Women Business Owners Network, The Triangle American Marketing Association, Decorating Den Interiors, Professional Photographers-NC, North Carolina Florists Association, NCPMI, NCACPA, Triangle BNI, and NC State University.
Martin is the author of several books that can be found on Amazon. The Martin Brossman YouTube channel, youtube.com/user/martinbrossman, includes instructional videos and informative interviews.
The best way to learn more about Martin Brossman is just Google his name!
Martin Brossman & Associates, LLC
To schedule time with Martin for Success Coaching, Speaking or Training is though his assistant Colleen at Colleen@MartinBrossman.com
[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]
Umar Hameed 0:01
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone. My name is Umar Hameed, I'm your host on the No Limits Selling Podcast where industry leaders share their tips, strategies and advice on how you can become better, stronger, faster. Just before we get started, I've got a question for you. Do you have a negative voice inside your head? We all do, right? I'm gonna help you remove that voice and under 30 days guaranteed not only remove it, but transform it. So instead of the voice that sabotages you, there's one that propels you to much higher levels of performance and success. There's a link in the show notes. Click on it to find out more. All right, let's get started.
Umar Hameed 0:41
Hey, everyone, I've got the pleasure of having Martin Brossman here today, not only is he, not only is he a Sales Guru, he is an NLP dude as well. Martin, welcome to the program.
Martin Brossman 0:51
I'm so excited to have this conversation with you because it's NLP, who had such an important role in my life when I took it many years ago, and also just for years of coaching people where they get stuck around sales and that this is something I'm passionate about. Because I experienced it as well leaving IBM, I used to have the attitude towards sales. I was in support of IBM, and they always wanted me in sales because I was so good with customers. And they said, Why don't you get in sales? And I said, Why don't lie and I don't play golf. And I laugh, and this and then I became self-employed when I'm gonna starve to death. I've got an immature internal attitude of sales. I need to mature right away and quick, or I'll be in big trouble.
Umar Hameed 1:44
But that thought about you know, that's what a lot of people think, is that salespeople are disingenuous.
Martin Brossman 1:50
Umar Hameed 1:51
And they just goof off and have, you know, expense accounts with fancy dinners and playing golf. And that is not the reality of things at all.
Martin Brossman 2:00
No, the biggest crisis to me is the attitude of salespeople must be con men. Salespeople must go for a win-lose relationship. And what I had to do is redefine sales for me, I had to just say, Let's wipe it out, let's assume I have a bias, it's hurting my business. And then, defining it and discovering that real ethical sales are a true win-win relationship. And it's also a lot of ethical people often have you win, and I lose, no, it must be win-win. And this was the beginning of understanding the importance of it. And that it's about ethical sales is about an invitation where they truly can choose to do it or not. Because if not, they're going to get buyer's remorse, they aren't going to be happy, they're not going to refer you, it's there really is no other way to go. But a true win-win relationship, especially for small and micro-businesses.
Umar Hameed 3:06
Absolutely. All over the place. And that word con men comes from confidence men, and one of the things that are similar to what we do for a living sales is that you need to have a lot of confidence in yourself. And if you're doing that, for your own gain, you get a level of confidence. But if you're like, Uh huh, there's a problem here, how do I solve it in a way that my customer becomes a raving fan sends me a ton of referrals. And his name's first kid after me, and I get my company looks good. And that's what sales are all about solving problems in a way that's elegant and gets great results for everyone.
Martin Brossman 3:42
Agree entirely. And the first thing is to do your best to become aware of your internal representation of sales. Because most of the people I find, that are terrible at sales, that's where the problem is their internal representation, then when you get them to sell guess what they do, they act the way they don't want to be, they don't want to be part of they actually project the negative that's in their head and start doing it. I go stop doing that, that I don't want to buy from you with that, you know, hear me understand me see if it's a win-win. And then if it is, don't close the sale invite me that you'd like to work with me. Because if you don't enjoy working with me, I'm not the right client for you. It's not a good match. Now, this is a little different in retail. So I want to take that but even in that the marketing and everything should have what I call push-pull effect, kind of my you know, a marketing approach where we should be unattractive to the people we can't serve and attractive to the people we can serve and get better at defining that so we enjoy who we're working with.
Umar Hameed 4:54
So Martin, can you help me out with dating because you know, that would be really, really useful that I become more attractive to the women that I want, and let's attract and then that might but do
Martin Brossman 5:03
I give me a one one tip because my first book was a men's book I wrote about.
Umar Hameed 5:08
Martin Brossman 5:09
Discussion group I had and the first one is to assume that your automatic attractive system is not trustworthy. Because most intelligent people I know most our automatic attracted system was developed by a child at a very young age or a teenager and had nothing to do with our lives work. That's the first step on it, your auto system is dysfunctional. So then start getting values on it. Go ahead.
Umar Hameed 5:40
So are you saying that, you know, when I meet a girl that I like, I shouldn't punch him in the shoulder like I did when I was four.
Martin Brossman 5:47
But also, even more, you know, be caught suspicious of what you're automatically attracted to. That was in like a little chickadee when you were too young to know, have good judgment. So no, I am serious that even that is something most is fascinating. I mean, I've worked with top performers, sales, people, everything. And it's amazing how their automatic system in that you need to not trust you know, and then ask, what are the values? What is the thing that's important to me? And But then I also as someone who just loves my wife to death believe the concept I learned in that relationship is the deepest love comes from commitment, not from a bubbly feeling that's automatically been trained when I was too young to have good judgment.
Umar Hameed 6:37
Right. And so going back to that salespeople, and that thing that's inside our head, dear viewers and listeners, here is how you can uncover what's going on. Sometimes I'll go to presentation, there'll be a roomful of salespeople. And I'll have to flip charts, flip chart a the good flip chart and flip chart B, the not so good. And I will say please finish the sentence for me, salespeople are and someone will say they're motivated. Greenpan on the good flip chart motivated, they're driven, they're amazing, they're solve problems. Then after about five or six positive attributes, someone says, they're sleazy, goes in the bandwidth chart. They're untrustworthy, they take advantage of you and that list is always bigger. So when you're examining yourself finish that sentence salespeople are and some good ones will come out when the bad ones come out, then you kind of go okay. Salespeople are sleazy and then you have to ask yourself, what is the benefit of me having that belief, and there's always a benefit? And then how could I get another belief that would give me what I want without losing the benefit? And so yeah, introspection, and we need to figure out who we are. Because that's when we uncover our most powerful self.
Martin Brossman 7:49
You just gave a great example of someone could take it right out of this show, just write down salespeople are and be as honest as possible. And if you've got a bunch of those things that are negative, that's your projection. And that's what's stopping you. Because ethical sales, and working with people and really sales because I believe sales is a profession, it's ethical, it's something honorable is truly being of service and finding the right match. And also referring out the wrong if it's not the right match. That's what your strategic partners afford. Yeah.
Umar Hameed 8:30
It takes courage to do that, though. Because a lot of times, it's like, oh, I don't want to lose that, you know, maybe I can do that. And you start becoming wishy-washy, you lose your integrity. And just really, so let me ask you this, Martin because none of what you're saying is like rocket science. You're not a genius, I'm not a genius. But yet millions upon millions of salespeople don't do any of that stuff. So how do we really uncover who we can serve? And in what way? And if you could answer that, by thinking about one of your past clients, you can change the name to protect the innocent and say, I was working with Jane. And this is what she thought she was doing. I helped her realize x. And this is how I helped to do that. And now she's doing y. Could you give me one of those stories that makes it real for our viewers and listeners,
Martin Brossman 9:12
I actually wanted to give a salesperson who hired me as a coach to get out of the sales field. And I think the beginning is, I need to go in to make sure in the first interview, is it a right match or not? And if I am some reason too desperate to not distinguish that I need to get that straightened out first. So, I sat down, the guy said, My boss, is crazy. He screams at me. I want to get out of sales. And I said, Can we take a moment? Where do you want to go? And long story short is he said, I want to retire at this age and sell my sailboat. And I looked at what he was doing and looked at the field he was in. And when you're actually in the best field to be in to get that goal. You would be open to really working with me on how to not care about your boss yelling. And I needed to know that are they willing to make the behavioral changes to get the results they were because most people would won't do that. You know, most people won't make that behavioral change in our field is very expensive. We aren't therapists, we want the minimum possible. And so I said, Yes, well, the long story short is I got him to make it a game. And when we are done at the end of the year, his boss stood up, held up his numbers, and said, You all are worthless idiots. Look at what this guy did. And he was the peak performer, his boss was still, you know? Yeah. You know, and is that, but the fact is, is he learned to shift his representation of it and get power over it, you know, that which offends us is something that we're giving our power away to. And that which insults us is something we're giving our power away to. And when we got under, how do you do and I like to play a game? And you understand this? And probably do it with many clients of how can I ask them? How can I be you in a day, I need to be offended the same way you are? And that's, we won't go into the NLP stuff, the meta programs and all that, but that's what we're listening for, is what is the coding of being offended? Like you are getting upset and so forth? And then we have to get them some distance and make some other decisions on it? Did that give you a, an answer you were looking for? I could,
Umar Hameed 11:41
It didn't.Two things, two things came up. Number one, when you first decided, do I want to work with this guy or not throw my like, really desperate. I heard this expression recently, it was called quota breath. Like when you have a quota breath, people can sense it, and they don't want to work with you, because you're like so desperate. But going back to what you said, which I think was spot on. The only thing I'd add to it is this is that? I'm not sure I'm gonna ask you a strange question, Martin, but just answer honestly. Do you want to be an opera singer?
Martin Brossman 12:08
Right, right. No, I don't.
Umar Hameed 12:11
So, if you were,
Martin Brossman 12:13
I would annoy people. I've had women in church say you don't have to sing.
Umar Hameed 12:19
So the reason I asked that is this is that if you were like thinking, you know, I don't have to be an opera singer, you wouldn't care. It's like, I don't want to do that anyway, what do I care about, but there's things that you want to do that you're not doing in the way you want to do. And when you think about those and uncomfortable feeling comes up in your body. And the clue to finding what's going on is when that feeling comes up. So let's say somebody that when they hear no, once in a sales conversation, they don't want to hear it again, as soon as they hear the No, they get this uncomfortable feeling. Finish that sales appointment and just going to go back to your car, and then go back to that moment in the meeting when they heard the No, feel that feeling and just put your hand there and say, Hello. And that what's causing that feeling is going to answer and go Yep, you're going to say, Well, what are you trying to do for me? And you'll get the answer to why that block is there. And at that point, you can fix it yourself or call Martin go 1800 Martin and Martin,
Martin Brossman 13:17
I've looked over your work, you've got great resources, dude, I don't want a shirt.
Umar Hameed 13:22
Yeah. What we're trained to do is when we feel that uncomfortable feeling, I don't want to hear that. And the clue to greatness is when you feel that uncomfortable feeling or when you eff up the clue to getting over it, it is in that event. And so don't shy away from it, embrace it. And on the other side of that is something wonderful. And what's on the other side is a better version of you.
Martin Brossman 13:47
It is such an important thing that we start identifying the feelings and then how are we going to interpret them and how to serve as I do want to share a story that came to mind from a book called Iron John, which was really about men maturing, and I highly recommended by Robert Bly. And he was about a kingdom that was terrorized by a swamp with an big creature that was killing everyone. They couldn't go in the woods. And they had a sign up said night for hire, to clean up this problem. So this guy showed up says I'll take on the job, he had his dog with him, he goes to the edge of the swamp, and the giant creature reaches out, grabs his dog that he loved dearly, pulls it in the swamp, and kills it immediately. And I explained the and the warrior says I'm at the right place. And the fact was, is it didn't mean he didn't lose the dog didn't love the dog. It wasn't a loss, but it was the indicator. Okay, this is where I need to be. This is the problem to face and it's starting to get the power where instead of ignoring our feelings, noticing our feelings, but not just being our feelings, and that's where that separation does take some work and I've worked with many people and getting that apart. You know one, you know the thing is, is one of my jokes with sometimes clients is I go, stop being your feelings notice up you don't want stuff on. This is what's happening in my body. And then let's get power on it as an indicator, is it something I should just postpone and deal with later? Or is it something I need to address and getting that helps people separate real intuition from emotional bubbly ups and downs that happen all the time and bodies, and most people are? Pretty much. Let's not say most many people are often a drama, king or queen, just completely rolled by. And that's someone else driving the bus, not you.
Umar Hameed 15:54
So if I was an emperor for a day, this is what I would do for the world is like, I get people to understand what the frick feelings are. So what we do is we feel fear. And it's like, oh, my God, I'm afraid I'm going to run away. And what is here biologically, the maker gave us fear, for one frickin reason. And it was, I'm gonna make you extra physical best. When you have fear, you are your strongest self, you have the ability to fight like hell or run like hell, your reaction time is like Superman fast, your ability not to feel pain, and still keep going is is baked into it. And what we've been trained by our moms, and our environment is when you feel afraid, run away. And what we need to realize is the Maker put it there when you feel afraid, you're at your best self and move forward. And the same thing with guilt. Same thing with anger, all those emotions have a flip side. And if you kind of repurpose them, you become awesomer.
Martin Brossman 16:53
Yes, yes. And is that the story of getting the distance the start of identify? And, and really, like we said, the fundamental is if you're having a problem with sales, what is your internal representation? What do you read? What do you unconsciously we want to bring that conscious identifying as the bad of sales, and then we've got a plugin at definition that will work with your value systems and understand because when I tell people to me, sales is being of service in the world sales is making sure that I'm adding so much value, what I'm charging is well worth it, it adds to them. I don't get that you know, and they usually aren't against that. Go ahead.
Umar Hameed 17:40
Oh, I was saying you got to be a dumb asked not to do it, I got an idiot not to take this journey with Martin because ultimately, at the end of the day, there was this old comic strip called Pogo. And the head this one phrase, and the phrase was, we've met the enemy and the enemy is us. We need to realize that it's not the competition is not your boss is not your spouse is not your kids is not your education is not your wealth. It's what's happening in your mindset is getting in the way of you stepping up to who you've always meant to be. And we've heard that you know, hero's journey, yeah. And journey, you know, you can go on an adventure, but really the hero's journey is internal one, that if you can actually face your fears and move beyond, you step into a place and kind of go, I didn't die, man, I can do anything I truly want and just go out there and make it happen.
Martin Brossman 18:30
You know, some of the most amazing people I've gotten to coach that are entrepreneurs and highly successful, when I build enough trust to hear about their childhood, I don't know how they lived through it. And so I think we make a decision in life is either we're going to identify with our victim this, or we're going to transform it as fuel to be great. And the actually, to me, the tragic is the people who had no wounds had no tragedy had the perfect upbringing, because they have nothing to transform the fuel that drives so many powerful people that I met entrepreneurs, men, and women success beyond anything you can imagine. And you get to build rapport coaching with them, we'll find out. I don't know how you live through your childhood.
Umar Hameed 19:21
And the reality is we all live through our childhoods. So, I was working with this woman and we were talking about she came in because she had a little bit of difficulty, you know, what public speaking is like, if there's one person there, I can do it. But if there's more than one I can and as she's talking, her hand goes up to her throat in such a way that it's like, hmm, there's something there. And then as we start talking, I happen to be a good hypnotist as well. Hmm. So I put her in a light trance, and instead tell me about a particular time when you went to do public speaking and it felt uncomfortable, and you did it or you didn't do it, and we will get back there all of a sudden a memory comes back from in childhood. It like a thunderbolt, she was five years old. And her uncle had taken her into a separate room. He was sexually molesting her, and he was choking her, so she wouldn't make a sound. And she'd been carrying this for four years without knowing it. And so NLP is a great tool for going in there and disconnecting what happened and the meaning of what happened and changing it. And for her, it was a life-changing event. It gave her a life back, she could comfortably powerfully speak in public, it didn't teach her to think about speaking. And that's what we have the potential to do. And that's NLP isn't the be-all end-all. But there's methodologies out there, that if you are stuck, how do you know you're stuck, you feel that uncomfortable is in your body, and go explore that and go find someone that can help you to get disconnect that and you become the person you were meant to be? And I think that's what you're doing, Martin, that's what I'm doing for people, is to get them to put the BS aside and start living life fully.
Martin Brossman 20:54
Yes, in fact, it's interesting, you said that when I wanted to get into coaching, I hired two a psychiatrist and a social worker to consult me on the boundaries to know, so I knew exactly when I needed to refer someone to them. And what was within the realm of my comfort of coaching, which is, you know, very future focus, and barriers? And knowing when there was a wall big enough, I need to refer out. And that was a valuable tool for me to know those very clear boundaries. And they actually, what it led to is a lot of therapist over the years saying this, we're done, you know, you need to go work with Barton on goals and making stuff happen and other,
Umar Hameed 21:42
Martin Brossman 21:43
I'm done with that. And it was interesting, because those that was back in early 90 and 91 when I started planning to build up this career, there weren't a lot of resources around coaching and what it was, and there was kind of a life coaching, but there wasn't, and I really had coined the term success coach, I talked to an attorney, he goes, you'll find it the rest of your life, give it away, if you're the first to use the name. And that was the interface of business, planning, and success, and then personal, the inner game and the outer game of focusing on but that was something that was very valuable to me, you mention of knowing where my boundary was when I go, Okay, this is beyond the scope of what I can help you with. Here's some people I recommend.
Umar Hameed 22:30
So it kind of reminds me of a movie with Clint Eastwood, his Dirty Harry movies.
Martin Brossman 22:35
Umar Hameed 22:36
It this one scene where it goes, a man's got to know his limitations.
Martin Brossman 22:40
Umar Hameed 22:41
It's like, Hey, I know my limitations. I'm great here. I need resources there. And most of us, you know, I find it difficult. Sometimes it's like, yeah, I could do that too. And I could do that too. And what you need to realize is, you're doing yourself a disservice, you're doing your clients a disservice, what you need to figure out is, where can I be the best in the world at. And even if I'm not going to be best in the world, just by thinking it, I could be 60% of the way there. by tweaking the things I need to tweak, I could easily get up to 80% over the next year, I could get up to 90%. And I might get up into the 92% of all best in the world, which is pretty fantastic. But if you don't have that thought, or if you let yourself have project creep, I can do this and that and the other thing, then you're just gonna be mediocre, and who needs to hire a mediocre coach or a mediocre employee.
Martin Brossman 23:27
That's one of the sins of early corporate training. And the sins of that was, they would always at IBM have us list our shortcomings and work on it. And it wasn't till I found a good book on it. And it was a Strength Finders with the book that changed my life, you know it as well. But the concept was really successful people play to their strengths so much, they can generate enough revenue to pay other people to fill in the blanks. They're not as good at now, when you start, you're going to have to do everything, of course, and make sure that that you take the trash out and all those. But that's another important piece is what am I absolutely best at? And then how can I generate enough revenue that I can pay someone to do the other, I still need to oversee it, and understand it and manage it. But that was another important piece and lesson that I learned that was counter to what I experienced from the conversations in the corporate world.
Umar Hameed 24:32
Yeah. What it kind of makes me think about is, so you're good at this one thing. And if you start focusing on that one thing, it's going to get better. It's not only letting go of the weakness, you're actually strengthening the strength. And that's how you become spectacular at what you do and Martin, you are spectacular at helping people break through their barriers, and do great in sales. Thank you so much for being on the show.
Martin Brossman 24:55
Yes, it was wonderful. And thanks again. I do want to tell people check out all your great resources as well.
Umar Hameed 25:01
Thanks so much and dear viewers and listeners in the show notes. We're going to have all the links to get ahold of Martin and all his resources. Thanks so much for tuning in. And I am looking forward to hitting stop so Martin I can do the after-the-interview conversation. Take care. Bye
Umar Hameed 25:24
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to iTunes and leave a five-star rating. And if you're looking for more tools, go to my website at nolimitsselling.com. I've got a free mind training course there, that's going to teach you some insights from the world of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and that is the fastest way to get better results.