Jon is a business growth expert, master facilitator, and the business guru’s guru. He was co-owner of a promotional company that ranked #26 out of 24,000 nationally. Since he sold out, he has devoted his time to developing Brand Launcher where he and his team of expert business mentors specialize in helping owners grow their businesses while reducing its dependence on them.
Jon is famous for his Turning Point Program, an intense on-site experience designed to guide high-level entrepreneurs to their next chapter in life and business. Jon’s powerful presentations combine business savvy with deep personal insight, earning top ratings across hundreds of industries.
Check out Jon's latest creation: http://www.GetMyThriveScore.com/
- Tell yourself that being a good leader means shifting control and increasing competence in your team. In other words… you need to let go. Task by task.
- Ask yourself: How can I turn this into a training opportunity? What do they need from me?
- Rather than solving someone’s problems, ask them for solutions. How would they approach the problem? How might they solve it?
- Offer suggestions, but, as hard as it may be, do NOT provide all of the answers.
[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]
Umar Hameed 0:06
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone. This is Umar Hameed, your host and welcome to the no limit selling Podcast, where industry leaders share their tips, strategies and advice on how to make you better, stronger, faster. Get ready for another episode.
Umar Hameed 0:35
Hello, everyone. Today I have john Goldman, the CEO of turning point joining me today, john, welcome to the program.
Jon Goldman 0:42
Thanks, Umar. I'm really excited to be with you today.
Umar Hameed 0:45
So john, you had your business here in good old Baltimore, the center of the universe, and you moved it to Israel Tell me what prompted the move.
Jon Goldman 0:55
So we're not just in Israel, we're actually International. You know, I have traveled all I spent time traveling all around the world. And in my travels, ultimately ended up in Israel, I traveled around Europe, and I had a one way ticket around the world. And while I was in Europe, I guess you have to understand what prompted the whole thing was when I was in college, some people were brought up to maybe be doctors or lawyers. And I was brought up somehow to be in marketing in our business, by my dad by my training. And so after I graduated college, I was ready to start looking around during college, I had the world's largest student run advertising and public relations agency. And I was recognized by Harvard Business School for creating such a agency, and had all sorts of offers to work in agencies afterwards. But then after that, it was like, You know what, let me go explore the world a bit. So what I did is I started traveling around the world, and I was a card carrying hedonist, which I'm not anymore, I hope. And as I was traveling on, so I ended up doing all sorts of experimentation of things and ended up in a Christian monastery, and then in a Buddhist monastery, there lived in a cave, and then I stopped speaking for one week, that's the last time I did that. And I stopped eating for one week, and I drink water. And then I stopped moving for a week, and I live blindfolded the forest. And then ultimately, I made my way on my journey around the world and up in Israel, and felt a connection to the place, I find it to be one of the few what we call thrive zones in the world, we've identified just a few thrive zones where people are absolutely thriving economically, physically, emotionally. And it's an amazing place. So we set up an office in a home in Israel, as well as in America. So that's kind of what got me here.
Umar Hameed 2:44
So john, I read the book, startup nation, have you come across it?
Jon Goldman 2:48
Absolutely. Yeah. And that's part of what's going on here is that there's more startup per capita in Israel than anywhere in the world, meaning more than the United States more than Kenya, more than Germany, in Japan, or China, which is crazy.
Umar Hameed 3:01
So, you know, being intimately familiar with the folks in Baltimore, the US and Israel. So what's the distinction? What are you finding different there in terms of the vibe and energy and desire to be entrepreneurial?
Jon Goldman 3:16
You know, I think that what's important is that people, regardless of where they are, they ask the big question, What's this about? Why am I doing what I'm doing? And during my travels, I found that that question is asked a lot here, like, what am I doing? And why am I here, because it's not an easy place to be. But sometimes we look at, we look at resistance as something that we don't want. But the truth is, resistance is what makes us so much stronger, and so much better if the fights worth fighting for. And so what I found here is that due to the intensity of the challenge of making the desert come alive and blossom, when hasn't blossomed for a couple thousand years. And when the the countries around them all went to wipe them out. And when the entire country is about the size of even smaller than New Jersey, but there's more reporters per square foot than anywhere in the world. So that sense of why which is some of the things I want to talk about is being driven by a very clear purpose, if you own a business, and if you're trying to drive your business, that sense of because is something I really want to talk about, we're going to get to soon. And remind me to come back to because because it's a because it's a fundamental process.
Umar Hameed 4:31
So we've worked together in the past, I've worked for you for some of your clients. And one of the things that you were doing when we knew each other was companies would come in that had a successful company that may have been, you know, at a plateau, and you want them to see an insight or develop a strategy that allow them to radically grow their business. Can you tell me about one of those experiences a company that came in how you go The insight and what the results were?
Jon Goldman 5:02
Absolutely. Let's start off with how I blended the business and the personal. So we spoke a little about the personal. on the business side show, you know, I used to own and be a partner in Goldman promotions, we were the 25th largest promotion company in North America out of but over, I guess, maybe 25,000, we've probably got the 27th largest doing over 35 million a year had eight offices, and 150 hundred 70 employees. And I sold out. During that process, I learned a lot about what works and what doesn't work. And in my next iteration was the company you're talking about, which is turning point and also brand launcher. And I kept one of my marketing companies was called lumpy mail, flat mail, flat response, ad lump and get a bump in response. So that company actually sold not long ago. And I focus on turning points, because I believe that it's important for everybody who runs a business to have a one page life plan, and focus on what matters most. And I have an ardent belief that when you're clear about what matters most, and you can focus on that and be in your zone, in what we call your thrive zone, then the results are amazing, internally and externally. So that's the framework to hopefully answer the question that you asked me. And you asked me for one example. I'll give you an example. Daniel Ely. So Daniel Ely is a really interesting guy. I'll give you a quick before and after. The couple things I wanted to talk about to share with our listeners is two concepts. Number one, is something called upward jumping in monkeys. And number two, is thriving.
Umar Hameed 6:46
So did you say upward jump monkeys,
Jon Goldman 6:49
yes, upward jumping monkeys, it's going to be the heart and heart and soul of the conversation I would like to have with you today. Go for it. So what is an upper jumping monkey, an upper jumping monkey has two components, the external junk monkeys and internal opera jumping monkeys. And we want to talk about the care and feeding of upper jumping monkeys, I'll give you a classic example of an external opera jumping monkey is that let's say that you own a business, and you have employees who work for you. Many people suffer from upper jumping monkeys, and why they suffer because their real goal is to increase what we call asset ability. Asset ability. Asset ability is the ability to actually grow your business and create an asset as opposed to a glorified job. So if that's the game, so the goal is not just to work on the business, but to be able to work in the business and create so that you could step back or step out of ourselves. And so Daniel, suffered from upward jumping monkeys in a huge way. Daniel owned a company called prepaid experts, and it was a cell phone company. He is brilliant. And he suffered from upward jumping monkeys, that we discovered how and why when we started doing a process flow map, which is one thing that we do is we kind of look at how our decisions made and what's your role? And are you living in what will call your greatest habit, ha bu T. Habit stands for the highest and best use of your time. When a person is clear about their habit, their highest and best use of their time, then they can manage their internal and external, external opera jumping monkeys. So here's what happened. He was not in his habit, which his greatest habit is to be able to make deals, work in the company work on the company strategically. And he he's really good at seeing market and these sorts of things. But he spent a lot of time in the weeds. And if you're listening to this, if you own a company or running a company, for sure, you're also going to feel that as well. So therefore, what happened, we looked at what happening was that all decisions, big decisions, ultimately reported back to him. And two of his managers one will call one called rule and the other one will call Mr. And unlike Isaac, a lot of decisions end up coming back to him. And we realize, Wow, you're actually the greatest light and the greatest shadow, you're the greatest asset and the greatest bottleneck. And what we're going to talk about today, Omar is how to identify your greatest habit, the highest and best use of your time, play to your strengths, compensate for your weaknesses, and then thrive. One of the first things is being really honest about what's going on. And so we did an assessment we have an assessment online that anyone who's listening can get which is get my thrive score.com get my thrive score.com and from there,
Umar Hameed 9:54
and we'll put that in the timeline, description
Jon Goldman 9:57
fantastic to it, and so on. That
Jon Goldman 10:00
On that assessment helps you assess where you're thriving where you're not. And so Daniel started to notice that well, he is actually is actually a asset in a bottleneck. And once we start identifying the bottleneck, he we identify something that might be a little bit challenging for many of us is the fact that, you know, but many of us identify that we're really good at something. And that's the light shadow thing. If you're in business, most likely, you have a tremendous light. And that means you're really good at some things. And if you're really good at one thing, you're probably really lousy at another. And he was really good at big picture. And his great strength was not managing all the people. And so many times what happens is where goober responsible, every business owner I've met, is Uber responsible. That's the great light, they're professional. They're responsible, they're responsive. And now what happens when you're like that, you suffer from upward jumping monkeys, someone walks into your office, and like, Hey, Umar, I got this problem. We have a client over here, they're having a problem with the shipment, or we got a billing issue, or we have a production issue, and you're like, oh, okay, internally, you're thinking, Okay, look, I'm really good at this, I'm really responsible. Let me try to help him out. And so you've just identified an upper jumping monkey. And so therefore, you got to ask yourself, okay, what do I do now? Most people make the mistake, what do you think most people do? When they seem up or jumping monkey, they,
Umar Hameed 11:33
they grab it,
Jon Goldman 11:34
they grab, first of all, if they're lucky enough they're aware. Next is they think, oh, what I need is monkey repellent. And they take their spray can like no Get away from me, you go deal with it yourself. Or they're like, I've been burned so many times. And I've, I've had the pleasure and the privilege of working and mentoring thousands of entrepreneurs and owners, literally, in salespeople. And what I found is that so many of them are so prepared and willing to actually do it themselves. So they get stuck in it. And so now the separate jumping monkey jumps off their their employees back and jumps right on their back, and like, Oh, yeah, I can help you. Because their inner game is off. They forgotten the first principle that we said, the purpose of business is to build an asset, increase asset ability, and thrive. And so what you're actually doing is you're hurting them, and you're hurting you tell me if that makes sense.
Umar Hameed 12:30
It makes perfect sense. And so some people have this belief that you know, if you want it done, right, do it yourself. So how do you get owners to change that if that's like ingrain? At the end?
Jon Goldman 12:44
Really great question. So let's go back to our upper jumping monkeys. So we had this guy comes up and says, I got a problem with the client. And Daniel or me is the owner is thinking, Okay, I can help you with that. So one, I've either been burned before I could do it better than anyone else. And number two, so I'm thinking monkey repellents. But I'm going to tell you the, what I actually think the secret is, the secret is what you need instead is a mirror. What do I mean? A mirror. so goes the company, I'm sorry, so goes the leader, so goes the company, wherever the leaders from the company will be strong. Wherever the leaders weak, the company will be when you have a guy who's a fantastic engineer, the company is gonna be great in engineering, and lousy in emotional intuitiveness. And reading clients, when you have a guy who's a fantastic salesman, right. And he's really strong there. But he's really not so organized. So the company is going to be really strong in sales and reading people and lousy in processing for fulfillment. So the first thing is, is to take a mirror and say, What am I doing here? And what we realize is a couple of big mistakes, and maybe I can share with you a few of the big mistakes and how to overcome them. To answer your question. What do we do instead of doing it myself? Yeah.
Umar Hameed 14:04
Of course, that's a big struggle for a lot of owners. So
Jon Goldman 14:08
the first piece is, and by the way, the only reason I can say this anywhere, maybe embarrassed to say but I have screwed up so many times. I've made so many mistakes in I am a wounded healer. That means that if you're an alcoholic, you will help other alcoholics if you are a someone who like candy. Oh, what's her name? She's the her son got killed by drunk driver came.
Jon Goldman 14:32
Jon Goldman 14:34
drummer so she's a wounded healer. So I tuned the wounded healer. I too am passionate about freedom teams and freedom systems because I have and still suffer. And when I'm not conscious of some of the following problems I'll share with you so it's not
Umar Hameed 14:48
a cheat that's a label people have given me to wounded healer. So this
Jon Goldman 14:52
is not about I'm up here and you're done there. Oh, dear listener. It's about you know, we're on this journey together. And I'm gonna share with you the share with you some of the struggles and some of the challenges and how to overcome them. So the first piece is, in turn, let's talk about the internal opera jumping monkeys before we deal with the external opera jumping monkeys, internal opera jumping monkeys come from our, the lower part of our psyche. And it's where, you know, you're familiar with the hand model of what's an reptilian brain, a reptilian brain is that part of our cortex, that the, the part of our brain that's kind of by the spinals by the spinal cord, where it's where your reptile you ever stemness In response, someone says to you, they cut you off in like oximeter, science bang, let me punch you. So response. When you grow, you actually can put some space in it in between the serious response next time someone cuts you off, it's like, oh, okay, what's going on for that person, as opposed to doing something nasty, you're responding. So the first thing that happens with upward jumping monkeys, is realizing that there's a stimulus response, someone's coming in, and my gut reaction is like, my ego is my amigo, I'm smart, I'm responsible.
Umar Hameed 16:10
So just put some science behind it, I think they've measured it at the amygdala gets triggered in five milliseconds. And if you go to the hippocampus, we have some reasoning and thought, that's a 500 millisecond route. So the initial response is lightning fast. And the question is, how do you catch it. So
Jon Goldman 16:31
what we need to do is, first of all, have a mirror so to speak, and raise your awareness and see when you start doing things that are not in your greatest habit. And we're going to talk a little later about how to identify your greatest habit. And if you recognize an upper jumping monkey, the so the first thing is inner upper jumping monkeys. And next is expert, external expert jumping monkey. So internally, so Oh, this is ego driven. Hmm, isn't that interesting? It's, it's the reptilian response of like, Oh, I could do this. And so that's the next thing. The second thing is giving too much value. So giving too much value means that because my ego is my amigo, and I know so much, I'm going to try to provide value in sometimes so many of us, at least the people I work with, they are smart, talented, insightful, successful. And wherever they go, they want to add value. You know what sometimes, dude, don't add value help me instead. So that's the next piece. And I want to give you a couple more, but any questions before I continue on? Okay, no, please go on now that we're starting to realize that Oh, yeah. What this is really about is empowering other people. And so therefore, I've got to get my brain out of the sense that I can do it all I need to do it all. And instead, I want to actually build what we're going to call a freedom team, and a freedom system. And so I'm going to give you a little bit of the science of where upper jumping monkeys come from on the external side. Number one is you actually created something called learned helplessness. So I'm sure you know, the science between learned helplessness that Martin Seligman did a very famous experiment with dogs that today would probably be against the law to do, because what he did in the 1970s was, he would put a dog in on one side of a of a cage and then have a small, tiny little hurdle. So they can jump over and go into the other side of the cage, on one side of the cage, they would have shocks that would go on the floor. And if the dog was able to, they would just jump over and they get out of it. And so it turns out that nearly 90% of the dogs would jump out when they were shocked and go to the side where they're safe, then, but the other, there's another group, unfortunately, they were given shocks, and they couldn't go anywhere. So then what happened was these animals started. This is where we get the concept of learned helplessness, learned helplessness means that now when the shock comes, those animals that learned before that they couldn't jump anywhere, they didn't do anything. And so those animals that knew that they could jump out, they would jump out. And so what's happening here from a upward jumping monkey process is that you've trained your employees have learned helplessness, they walk in your office and say, Look, Omar, I've got an issue. I need your help. And you're like, Oh, great, I can help you. And so therefore, they're like, Okay, good. I've now learned helplessness that I can't do this. That's the first thing to recognize.
Umar Hameed 19:44
So just adding to that, like sometimes that happens, but do you think sometimes they go Okay, this is what's expected of me is that the boss wants this even though the Boston actually say that that they've set the norm and sometimes they helplessness. And sometimes I can't make a decision without him because he wants to be involved in everything. Even though that wasn't the boss's
Jon Goldman 20:07
totally right what you're saying. And so therefore, the upward jumping monkey internally there, that he's actually shooting everybody, because he's like, Oh, I'm like the genius with 1000 helpers. And it's all about me, but it's not. It's not all about you, I've never met an entrepreneur who's a leader of a company that gets it all done himself. If you want to do that, be a solopreneur. And do it yourself. That's not my business, I work with people that want to build an asset. And the only way to do that is to build a freedom team and a freedom system. In order to do that, you actually really, honestly actually have to believe in people. And so I'm going to come back to Daniel Ely in a minute. And I just want to give you a little bit more science, because I know that your science guy about how this actually is come about, and then how we're going to deal with it. So the first thing that we said, why it happens is because you've actually created learn helplessness in your employees. And so therefore, you haven't been said, empower them. And I'm gonna share with you a technique, some that we have that we created called a coaching card, which instead, you become a coach instead of a cup, and you become a leader instead of a door. So we'll come back to the coaching card, if you can remember to ask me, and we're going to stay with Daniel Eli. And I'm going to share with you one more piece of science, if you're okay for it, about why we actually do it. So this next piece of science, yes, is coming comes from a Greek myth. And it's called the Pygmalion effect. So Pygmalion effect was a very, yes, my favorite, and I curse, Greek myth, which is a guy love this. He loved this statue that he made so much that she comes comes to life. So in other words, what we believe in starts to come to life. So that means that if we think that our workers are jerks, they're jerks. If we think they're amazing, they are amazing. I need to repeat that because most people don't really believe what I just said. In other words, if you see the world as a negative fight, you'll experience the world as negative fight. If you experience the world, with scarcity, you will experience scarcity. If you experience and understand your workers to be not good enough, you will have workers who are not good enough. It starts internally.
Umar Hameed 22:13
And I think the Talmud put it nicely, we do not see the universe as it is, we see it as we are.
Jon Goldman 22:21
Right. So based on this, based on what you're seeing in the Talmud, there is a insight that was research that was done by davine. And us. So what he did was, you know, had this connection to Israel. So they assessed Israeli army. So generals and commanders, and they said before, these were called employees before the soldiers come in, there's three groups, those that we predict to be really successful, we'll call them the high performer, the high high potential, those that are their normal, and those that we don't know if they're good, or they're not good. So, and however, and what we're going to do, so you're ready, is we're gonna, we'll tell you who they are. And it's based on a very famous science experiments as well, that happened in a school where they told the teachers about the children, they said, which students are going to be really smart, which was really stupid. This one was done in Israeli army. And so what I want you to do is I want you to learn their names by heart, and their scores matter. So you know, who are the champions, and who are the losers. And so sure enough, what happened was those that predicted high, those are predicted to perform much higher than anybody else, guess what, after the course, their performance way outperforming everybody else, those that were normal, those had the lowest scores, and those that they didn't actually know, those were actually in the middle. Meaning that if I thought you're going to be a champion, your champion, thought, you're a loser, you're a loser. But the truth is, none of that was true. It was all made up. And so in fact, what we learn is that people rise to what we believe in them. And so tell me, if that makes sense.
Umar Hameed 24:00
Makes perfect sense. I mean, expectations
Jon Goldman 24:04
are powerful. So we're playing perfectly no to growing a business up or jumping monkeys, increasing your sales and thriving more, so you could build an asset. And we're gonna call it freedom team and a freedom system. And what we said so far, was that in order to do this, we have internal upper jumping monkeys, and external upper jumping monkeys. And we spoke a little about how being the fact that we're responsible, that becomes in our way, our ego gets in our way, and we try to give too much value it gets in our way. And so the other side is that we've actually taught others that they can't do this, you need to depend on me, we spoke about these how these dogs learned that, oh, you're helpless and you can't. I've already taught you that. If you have a problem, you come to me. And then we also spoke about, you're going to perform exactly the way that I see you, and nothing more. And I'll give one more piece of science and then we're going to go jump into it. Should I give one more piece Trying to jump into it. Okay, so the jump into and if you're interested later, it's about the elephants, essentially elephants. Elephants are very powerful, but they don't realize how powerful they are. Okay, so here's what happened with Daniel Eli. And here's what can happen with you, here are some ways now to start changing the game of managing will call the care and the feeding of upper jumping monkeys internally and externally. So the first thing is, is to understand your goal, if you want to have more control, and if you want to have more influence, the person who gives up control actually has more power and influence than the one that maintains control. I will say that again, Dave, Mark had said in a beautiful way, he wrote a book called turn that ship around, and he took the Santa Fe, which was the worst performing vessel in the United States Navy, and became the best. And one of the things that he says in a very eloquent way, is that the only way to increase your influence is by giving up control. But here's the catch, or you're a fool. If you give up control without increasing competency.
Jon Goldman 26:15
In other words, if you give up control, that's called dumping, right. And I know that because I am a victim of dumping on a victim, I'm a perpetrator of dumping run, I've had so many systems in so many businesses over the past, where I like, you know, I don't like doing it, let me just dump and run. And then what happened. I'm so frustrated. They're such as they didn't do what I was expecting. Because I didn't go through the following process of showing them exactly what needs to happen. I saw myself as a cop instead of a coach, I didn't believe in them. And I didn't increase competency first. And I didn't focus on my greatest habit, the highest and best use of my time, and then go through the important and step by step process of identifying those things, which are not my greatest habit, the highest and best use my time, and then train other people how to do them. So with Daniel, what we did was we said, okay, here's your habit, anything that's not let's, let's move it on. So the first thing I did was we said, okay, we need a we need agreement and actually made him sign a contract, I'll read from you to the contract. Ideally, you know, I do hereby pledge that I will allocate one day each week to the company's mission and for continuous improvement, and two days actually performing the duties of the marketing research and development director, I further you do this, I continue to perform my normal duties to the best of my abilities, and he signed it. And then we also started some job contracts and agreements of what other people are responsible for. Now, some amazing things started to happen for him in particular, one is he got to focus on the highest and best use of his time. Number two, they known or felt a sense of learned helplessness. Number three, he moved into more of a coach as opposed to a cop. And number four, he stopped being the bottleneck, and started being a asset, and he start to play to his light and compensate for shadow, which is the whole goal. Most of us get stuck in Coppin coach. And so what were the results of such a thing, his sales increased nearly 10 times that. So sales are made up of over 100 million dollars, the reduction of the dependence on him reduced nearly 90%. And he was able to take four months, four months from his business, and the company basically ran by itself. And we increase the asset ability to sell the company, I believe in increasing asset ability, whether you sell or whether you keep an asset, you shall reap. So we increased the asset ability of the company nearly 20 times. And I'm happy to say that he ended up actually selling the company for let's just say a lot of money, so that he doesn't have to work anymore. And now he's able to spend his time, he does charity work. And he manages investments. And he does tons of volunteer work. And he now has the freedom to do what matters most to him in his life. Where that come from that came from managing and identifying the internal upper jumping monkeys, the external jumper jumping monkeys, helping identify what his greatest happiness, the highest and best use of his time, giving up some control in increasing the competency of those that were around him. And I'll take a pause for a moment and give you a chance to ask any questions because I need to share with you one of the most important things was I told you that he signed an agreement. And the next thing I really want to talk about is accountability, and the sword of accountability.
Umar Hameed 29:43
So the question I have for you, john, is this. Is that your best guess? If we had 10 CEOs that listen to this podcast and go oh my god, this is exactly what I need. They come to you Or someone else developed those mechanisms in place? What percentage of those CEOs, even though they desperately want it would not want to give up? That old lifestyle of being center of attention needed wanted? Does that question Make sense? Like, sometimes you want something, but we have these hidden highs in the
Jon Goldman 30:28
way that says, Well, okay, john, this makes sense. And some people could do it. But can most people do it? And can I do it? If I'm listening to this? I don't know. Like, can I do it? That's the real question I want to ask. And so in my experience, is that some will, some won't. So what next great way to live your life, someone's gonna, some people are gonna rise to it, some won't. So what next? I'm like, like that guy walking down the beach, the guy walking on the beach, you know, what he's doing is throwing starfish into the ocean in this kid walks up and said, Mister, why are you doing that? Look at these thousands of starfish. You can't possibly save them all. And the guy says back to him, You know what? That's true. I don't need to. But I can save this one. And that one, and these people are ones that can make a difference in their life. And so some people listening today, they're going to be prepared and willing to do it, and some not. And that's okay. And
Umar Hameed 31:20
yeah. So, so look at the question the other way around, though, that some of the people want the Nirvana, but something within them stops them. So kind of what's your read on that before we move on, like, give me like your 32nd? One minute. Because a lot of times business people human beings struggle with, you know, I want x, but they cling on and they hold on as if their life depends on it to the old way. So So what prevents people
Jon Goldman 31:52
from making that jump? I'm not sure if I'm totally qualified to answer. And I still I'll share with you my personal approach to it. I've developed a program called the 10 gates of unsticking, and I know that you want said, Hey, I want to buy that domain for you. I wish we did that. It's a very, very deep program. And the first step of getting unstuck is identifying what's working, what way of being is not working for you, and what's not. And the thing that's also really important to know, is that as we we all have to get clear on where the pain and where the problem is, and also what the promise of a better futures. And I think the mistake a lot of people might make, and I don't know, because we're all different. But a lot of mistakes that a lot of us make is that what got me here won't get me there. In other words, the the mistake that we make is those voices that have been really helpful in the past that have protected me. I don't need to I don't, I really should not be disrespecting them. And I need to learn how to have a conversation with those lower voices. Those few are the reptilian voices, that no no difference between the stimulus and response there. Like it's about my ego, it's about protection, I need food shelter, I need just like the Maslow's Hierarchy would say, first, I have to make sure I've got enough money, I need to make sure that I'm respect, I need to make sure I'm loved. So those voices are very good voices. And if you tell a person, you have to get rid of them, they're going to resist it. But if you share with the person, Hey, you know what, I got those voices too. And not only do I have those voices, you have them and we don't need to throw them out. But what we do need to do is manage them. And that voice that has tried to help you make sure that you put enough food on the table. That's not a bad voice. It's a voice that's part of us. And we need to learn to negotiate with it and say, Hey, you know what, I'll tell you what, I'm going to work hard today. And you and I also agree that the most important thing that matters in our life is my wife and my children. And so let's agree on a time to stop. And when we come back at that time, we're going to you're going to want to say well, let's keep going. And you know what? I hear you. And I'll tell you what, if it really hurts us, too. I'll make a list at the end of the day. And I'll come back and we'll do it tomorrow. What I'm sharing with you is a very deep way of acknowledging those things have been very helpful, that helped us get there that need to be respected, and acknowledged and managed as opposed to killed.
Jon Goldman 34:27
Right. Great. So cool. Thank you for that, john. That really helps Neil and another fellow. I'm just gonna make up his name. We'll call him Michael. I once wrote a check to the American Nazi Party. Why would a guy named john Goldman write a check to the Nazi party?
Jon Goldman 34:50
Don't hang up now if you listen virginity guy, because you got to hear the end of the story. I wrote a check to the Nazi Party to counterbalance the other check that I also wrote United Cerebral Palsy. However, neither of us checks, I was going to mail, I had a client who I was working with. And this is the this piece is so, so important. He was really responsible. And he was responsible, like Daniel, he had a very large company that was growing, growing, growing, he would get up at four o'clock in the morning and going to set up all these guys to go for the day. And he would set up the, he would set up the team to go out. And I can't say who his name is. But I would say that he won one of the contracts that has to do with the Super Bowl, and really smart, talented guy. And he also had a kid with cerebral palsy. And really, he didn't spend time with his kid as much as he wanted to. And he was working work work. But the truth is, he left his wife and his wife left him anyone to spend time, but he wasn't quite sure how to do it. So I said the sword of accountability was the next thing that would be necessary for Daniel and for all of us, if you want to make the shift of instead of being a Dewar to being a owner, if you want to build a freedom team, in a freedom system, if you want to increase asset ability, and if you want to be able to manage up are jumping monkeys, so then you have to actually start to create accountability. And accountability has a sword that goes up and goes down, the sort of counting everyone knows goes down, it's like, I'm gonna hold you those external jumping monkeys accountable. And so here's what you're here's what your KPIs are your key performance indicators, here's how I'm going to evaluate you. But it also goes up, also goes up, meaning I need to be held accountable. So the problem that so many owners have from our is that they're not prepared or willing to be held accountable. And so what we did with this fellow was, I sent him Look, we got to put some teeth in this, you know, what's one thing that you and I would both hate to do? I would hate to send a check to the Nazi Party. So you and I both gonna write a check to the Nazi Party, I'm gonna hold on to it. And what's one thing that we really love is to give a check to the United Cerebral Palsy. And so here's the deal is that you and I have agreed now that you need to be done by six or six, we define the specific six means six means that you stop working by six, not that you're home by six, and that between six and six 615, you leave. And sometimes what happens if you can't you simply call your wife and say, I can't, obviously, that that becomes the the norm instead of the exception, so we're in trouble. And so we agreed to it. We enrolled his wife, we enrolled his employees, we got my team enrolled. And so we're checking with this guy for months on a regular basis to make sure that he would check in. So now, at the end of these three to three months, I don't know exactly what it was. Do you think that he made the shift that was deeply embedded to him about being responsible and getting up early? And instead of staying working till late at night and getting up early? Do you think he made the shift? Or do you think he reverted back to his own way? There's no way in the world I would just send a check to the Nazi Party. So I could not let him fail, nor could he fail. And I've done this so many times, so many people. And and I've seen remarkable things happen. So that sort of accountability means that he needs to be held accountable. And, and then also, we need to hold others accountable. And so that's when the most important things in terms of accountabilities identify and find someone who is compassionate, who is ruthless and consistent, that can help hold you accountable in my business. We that's what we do is I have a whole team of coaches and mentors in itself, and consultants that work with our clients and we hold them accountable to that which they feel is most important to them. No one's laying a trip on them. And when you find someone like that you have an accountability relationship. That's fantastic. So he was then held accountable. And again, we also help hold his team accountable. And I've seen this happen. I could also share with you one that there's a fantastic turnaround. Jeff Jeffrey, in this piece of accountability. So Jeff Jeffrey is a really beautiful and interesting guy. He owns a company in Chicago called Aramco. And Aramco, it's they it's a bizarre company, they sell lubricants, it's metal lubricants, like let's say you make you make cars and in order to in order to make the in order to make the cars so you have to
Jon Goldman 39:37
you have to have lubrication in the machines, and oil based lubricants are really messy. He has something called water water based lubricants, not so relevant to our conversation. But what is relevant is that one of the things that he struggled with was internal opera, join monkeys, and external opera jumping monkeys. And so what happened to make a long story short Short about him was that he was on the nicest guys in the world. And he really didn't want to, he really didn't want to be held accountable hold people accountable so much, because of the next concept, courageous conversations. So the only way you're going to be able to do this rise to be able to have a courageous conversation and create a safe space. And so he really didn't, like he, he'd like to be like, like the rest of us I living like, and he didn't like facing discomfort or confrontation. So he had to have a conversation with his mother, where, who, because he inherited the business, but he's charging with his brother who's in the business, who ultimate had let go of with his executive team, both up and also done with other team members, also prospects and customers, when he starts to master this, and amazing thing that happened. So what happened was, he was now willing to use this sort of accountability up and down and willing to create a safe space, and a courageous conversation about himself, which required being real, and honest, transparent, willing to face the hard stuff. And what happened was, his company had been in business for over 100 years. Join here the results. Are you have any questions about it before I tell the results?
Umar Hameed 41:19
Tell us the results. This is euro,
Jon Goldman 41:22
and the company is helping them cope? And yes, not long ago, he called and said, You know, I'm he was crying. Why was he crying, he said, I'm sitting in a gas station outside of a prospect. And it's unbelievable. I just received a phone call for someone who wants us to do this partnership, I don't want to get into what it was. And I'm getting calls from all over the world. And I just built my dream house. And my team, my team is the company is no longer dependent on me, I have more freedom and have I'm more well being than ever had. And our sales have increased at 100% after being in business for over 100 years, in the last four years, which is amazing. They had in the last two years that a 400% increase in the bonuses that they paid out to their people, because he started to believe in them. When we spoke about believing in people and the Pygmalion effect, he starts to believe in them and they start have courageous conversations. And they start to rise to the occasion. And he let his ego go instead of his egos amigo. And instead of being a cop, you move from cup to coach. And in doing so, he also was able to then obtain the two largest accounts that live in Colorado for over 50 years. Because he had a courageous conversations that look, some will some won't. So what next either, if you think we're good, so great, let's move forward. And if not, so let's do it as well. But I need to be really in integrity with you and have a courageous conversation, Mo they really respect it. And he he was so in the zone. And now he's number one in the entire industry what they do to me because they were able to focus on this one component of courageous conversations. And anyone that wants we can give a link on how do you have courageous conversations, especially if you don't if you like to avoid conflict, or you're worried about being like, or this sort of thing. So that is what created this entire turnaround from honored percent sales after 100 year old company.
Umar Hameed 43:23
So john, you've got a ton of knowledge to share, how can people get ahold of you and access some of these tools, and
Jon Goldman 43:32
I get hung up on simple ways. Number one is you can go to get my thrive score.com. And you can also contact us at brand launcher.com, br e n d, Li un ch La La u n ch er.com. And you can also call our office and set a time just to talk and they'll see if if he'll be the right person to help you whether it's me or someone else. And that phone number is 4104102357070. That's 410-235-7070. And although I don't think that we have enough time, I could also share with you what I would call a coaching card, which is how to shift from being a cop to a coach and allow you the last way that you can actually learn how to manage upper jumping monkeys so that you yourself can produce more sales, you can thrive more, you can build up the people around you, and you can actually have a company that's more of an asset as opposed to a glorified job.
Umar Hameed 44:32
JOHN, thanks so much for sitting down with me. I learned a lot. Yeah,
Jon Goldman 44:35
it's my pleasure. So I look forward to speaking to you and anyone that wants that coaching card can contact us there and just let us know by coaching card and also, we'll put the link on with the information you put up. Thank you so much Umar, I love the fact that you're giving so much value to your listeners. And thank you for the opportunity and I hope that people are smart enough to listen to every word you say because you have so much insight. I personally love listening to your stuff. And I listened to it again again with a pen and paper.
Umar Hameed 44:59
Thank you so much.
Umar Hameed 45:05
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to iTunes and leave a five star rating. And if you're looking for more tools, go to my website at no limit selling.com I've got a free mind training course there that's going to teach you some insights from the world of neuro linguistic programming and that is the fastest way to get better results.