Mike Shelah on The Ultimate Inspiration to Keep Going - Mind Training for Salespeople and Sales Leaders

Hi, my name is Mike Shelah, in December 1999, I began my technology sales career. I also started to build and develop my skills in: Emotional Intelligence, sales strategy, leadership, networking LinkedIn training, prospecting and public speaking.

In 2011, I began to share those experiences as a consultant and in January 2015 I launched my website. I spend my time with people, helping them become better. I start as a leader within to help others find the leader in them and develop greatness. September 2019 marked my beginning in full time IT sales and consulting for companies in the Maryland market, including, Baltimore, Washington D.C. and surrounding counties.

Contact Mike:

[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]

Umar Hameed 0:06
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone! My name is Umar Hameed, I’m your host on the No Limits Selling Podcast where industry leaders share their tips, strategies and advice on how you can become better, stronger, faster. Just before we get started, I’ve got a question for you, do you have a negative voice inside your head? We all do, right? I’m gonna help you remove that voice and under 30 days guaranteed, not only remove it, but transform it. So instead of the voice that sabotages you, there’s one that propels you to much higher levels of performance and success. There’s a link in the show notes, click on it to find out more. All right! Let’s get started.

Umar Hameed 0:35
Today I’m privileged to have Mike Shelah here, Chief consultant at Mike Shelah consulting. Mike, welcome to the show.

Mike Shelah 0:43
Umar, thank you for having me on today’s can be a lot of fun,

Umar Hameed 0:45
it is going to be a lot of fun, but let’s kick it off with tell me in 90 seconds who you are and what you do?

Mike Shelah 0:51
In 90 seconds, I am first and foremost a salesman, and have been so since 1996. And a few years ago, I became what I described as a LinkedIn evangelist. And I found that most sales people aren’t terribly good at using LinkedIn. And that’s a market. And I found that I could share my skills, my experience is not just in sales, but in how to really maximize your LinkedIn profile. So that salespeople could be much more successful, they could find deals faster, they could close deals faster, and they could sell bigger deals.

Umar Hameed 1:23
Hallelujah. So this shows broken up into three areas. One is, you know, getting to know you. The second one is your expertise as a salesperson, what you can share with our audience to help them improve their game. And number three, just the sales industry at large because it’s changing as we speak. And insights from you are going to be really helpful. So let’s kick this thing off. Who is your favorite superhero?

Mike Shelah 1:46
Easy, don’t you have to think about it, Superman.

Umar Hameed 1:48
Why?

Mike Shelah 1:49
He is all powerful and because of that he has to recognize how to meet are out his power, he could very easily just take over the world and be like a god and dominate everyone. But he really embraces the Clark Kent side of his character, where I want to be a human. I want to be part of the human race. I want to identify with other people. It’s hard not to love that.

Umar Hameed 2:17
So it’s leadership, right? Leadership is all about having influencing people to take the right actions and not using brute force to do so.

Mike Shelah 2:24
Right. Other because other than Because I said so.

Umar Hameed 2:26
Right. Have you ever said that as a dad don’t answer that question. So who’s you what motivates you?

Mike Shelah 2:33
My family, I have a wife. I have two children, one with special needs and the idea that I get up in the morning, and I’m doing what I want to do, then I’m helping people. And because of that I make a living and can take care of my family. It’s fantastic.

Umar Hameed 2:51
Brilliant! So who’s, who’s your mentor?

Mike Shelah 2:55
I have several of them. You actually got to meet one of them last week, Pete Coal Ash. And I talked about during a presentation that I did with him that Pete saved my life. He has given me more wisdom and more insight in the last three years and anybody else before that.

Umar Hameed 3:10
So does that mean Pete’s really smart? Or you’re really dumb?

Mike Shelah 3:12
Probably, a combination of the two.

Umar Hameed 3:16
So Mike, what’s your favorite cuss word?

Mike Shelah 3:18
You know, I put a lot of thought into this one because there’s only a handful of them out there. My wife and I like to get created from time to time. And I was laying in bed one day and I came up with son of a teddy fucker.

Umar Hameed 3:30
That’s, that is unusual. If you could have lunch with anybody that we know, today, somebody famous or historical figure or a fictional figure, who would that person be and what would you ask them?

Mike Shelah 3:45
It would be my mom. She passed away in September of 2003. Died way before she should have and I would simply ask her. Are you proud of what I’ve done? Since you’ve been gone?

Umar Hameed 4:01
Nice. What was your first sales job?

Mike Shelah 4:05
The combined Insurance Company of America and I put more money in my gas tank than I did in my bank account for the six plus months that I worked for them. But they they certainly taught me a thing or two about sales.

Umar Hameed 4:18
In your career. What’s the best deal that you ever had?

Mike Shelah 4:21
Best deal?

Umar Hameed 4:22
Best deal.

Mike Shelah 4:23
Probably, Howard Bank. The initial contract with them was $9,000 a month I closed that deal in under 60 days.

Umar Hameed 4:30
Nice.

Mike Shelah 4:31
And I grew up to $22,000 a month.

Umar Hameed 4:34
In which business?

Mike Shelah 4:35
I was in Telecom also service internet access.

Umar Hameed 4:39
Who is your best sales manager and what attribute did he or she have that you admired?

Mike Shelah 4:45
A woman named Hunter Picclick. I worked with her for four years at Earthlink. And I think her greatest attribute was her open willingness to engage and talk to me about sales. I would frequently wander into her office on any given day. And we would have a 30 to 45 minute conversation about sales about the right ways, the wrong ways. How can we get better because of that she was a tremendous sales mentor to me, not that she taught me anything, but she was so willing to listen and allow the the ideas to flow.

Umar Hameed 5:22
So we’re back to that leadership thing. Again, leadership isn’t about power and force. It’s about elegance.

Mike Shelah 5:28
Yes.

Umar Hameed 5:30
So tell me about a come to Jesus moment where you know, your career was going in one direction. And it was like one of those where you had to really rethink what you were doing retooling

Mike Shelah 5:38
Actually happened fairly recently, I had a day job. I was working for Comcast and without getting into too many of the details, they had decided that my company Mike Shelah, consulting was a conflict of interest. And I could have gone out and started looking for another job. And I said to my wife, I don’t want to work for other people anymore. Because it seems like every time I do, I get put into a box, and I’m very uncomfortable in that box.

Umar Hameed 6:13
Right.

Mike Shelah 6:13
Whereas Mike Shelah consulting, has been incredibly rewarding. The idea that somebody pays me money for my thoughts and my ideas, and then was done, they shake their hand my hand and say, thank you. So that’s really gratifying.

Umar Hameed 6:26
Nice, like, tell me about a deal that you saved from the jaws of death.

Mike Shelah 6:30
I don’t know if it’s quite the jaws of death. But I went into an auto dealership about four years ago that wanted an internet connection,

Umar Hameed 6:38
Right

Mike Shelah 6:39
And they told me who the players were. And I knew that my price was less than the players. And I came back a week later with the proposal. And the decision maker looks over the falls and goes, that’s great, Mike, that doesn’t solve my problem. What do you mean, it doesn’t solve your problem? I said, I’m less than calm competitors, right? He goes, yes, because I don’t have a budget. So what do you mean, you don’t have a budget to have any budget, what I came to learn was, they had made a significant investment in some software that was requiring a seriously fast internet connection and

Umar Hameed 7:14
Right

Mike Shelah 7:14
to work properly. They didn’t know that so after they bought the software and could not return it. They now were faced with the problem of getting the connection, without spending any money any more than they were currently spending.

Umar Hameed 7:28
Right.

Mike Shelah 7:29
I went back to the drawing board I evaluated all of their telecom spending for their entire company, was able to put the connection in and actually reduce their monthly expenses by $700 a month.

Umar Hameed 7:42
So you pull the lens back and saw the bigger scope of business you could get and they were motivated to do so.

Mike Shelah 7:46
Yes.

Umar Hameed 7:47
So it’s about perspective?

Mike Shelah 7:49
Mm hmm.

Umar Hameed 7:49
And often salespeople and mere humans, the way we get into trouble is we only see things from our point of view. And it’s leadership, again, is all about having the ability to pull back and get a different perspective, whether it’s from the customer side, or from more of a meta space, we just look down to the entire situation and go, Oh, wait a minute, we can solve this. If we pull back the focus. There’s another way to do this. So tell me where in your career did you make the jump from good to great?

Mike Shelah 8:17
I don’t know that I have, I think I’ve made the jump from good to better if the,

Umar Hameed 8:20
Nice.

Mike Shelah 8:20
one thing I’ve picked up in the last three years. When I’m when I met Pete, is I realized, I don’t know what I don’t know. And as a result of that,

Umar Hameed 8:31
I did know that

Mike Shelah 8:32
Yeah, I’ve become a voracious reader. And in the last three years, I’ve read somewhere around 100 120 books on sales, on leadership on emotional intelligence, networking, industry specific to LinkedIn. I’ve had people say to me, Well, Mike, you’re a LinkedIn expert. Why are you reading books on LinkedIn? Like, that’s what experts do? Because I don’t know everything. And every time I read someone else’s blog, I pick up something

Umar Hameed 8:58
Nice. And that’s also this podcast isn’t about leadership. But it kind of is. And that’s another thing that great leaders do is they’re always learning. What’s something you’re learning right now, that really turns you on? That’s okay to talk about on a podcast.

Mike Shelah 9:13
I, I stumbled into the concept of emotional intelligence. About a year ago, I went down the rabbit hole, looking for books one day, and I found this book. And a client was booking me for speaking event to do my LinkedIn training. And they said, Well, we’d love to have you talk about another subject. What else can you talk about? And I said, Well, I just read this book, emotional intelligence. 2.0 by Dr. Travis.

Umar Hameed 9:38
Brilliant.

Mike Shelah 9:38
Yeah. And the woman said, you know what, I read that book, too. I loved it. Why don’t you talk about that? Okay. So I spent the next six months reading every book I could get my hands on for emotional intelligence. And then Jeb blunt wrote this wonderful book about six months ago called sales, EQ, and For me, that was the last piece of the puzzle that snapped in,

Umar Hameed 10:03
Nice,

Mike Shelah 10:04
where I saw the kid the direct connection between raising your emotional intelligence and increasing your ability to sell effectively.

Umar Hameed 10:14
Nice. So what’s one tip out of that, that our listeners could put into action?

Mike Shelah 10:18
The gap between an event and how you respond to the event, in its simplest form emotional intelligence is you experience something, you give your brain the opportunity to allow that experience to pass through your emotional filter, your content filter, your entire life, has built this filter that shapes the way you see the world.

Umar Hameed 10:44
Yup.

Mike Shelah 10:44
And you give the experience the

Mike Shelah 10:46
Yup.

Mike Shelah 10:46
opportunity to pass that filter, whether it’s good, whether it’s bad, whether it’s happy, whether it’s sad, whether it’s frightening, whether it’s exciting. And you give your logical brain the opportunity to process that information, before responding.

Umar Hameed 11:00
So it goes back to that place of perspective. Because if you respond, your perspective is very highly focused from your past experiences. My dad didn’t take me to the circus, and now I’m a damaged person. And if you let it go through, you get a different perspective.

Mike Shelah 11:15
Yes,

Umar Hameed 11:15
You can still go back to the original, but it gives you the option to figure out what’s best.

Mike Shelah 11:20
Yes,

Umar Hameed 11:20
Totally brilliant. So tell me about a rebound moment in your career Because one of the things that separates, you know, people that are truly great at what they do, and people that are average is we’re all going to fall down,

Mike Shelah 11:33
Mm hmm.

Umar Hameed 11:33
People that truly great, get up faster.

Mike Shelah 11:35
Yeah.

Umar Hameed 11:36
And they keep going. Tell me about one of those moments where you kept going?

Mike Shelah 11:39
Yeah, I actually I had a very interesting scenario a few years ago, where I wasn’t unhappy with my job.

Umar Hameed 11:47
Mm hmm.

Mike Shelah 11:48
But I wasn’t thrilled about it. And I had two or three different suitors that were potentially pursuing me to come and work for them. And I walked into the office one day, and my manager says to me, I want you to know that you’re going to see a raise on your paycheck on Friday. When I said, I am? She said, Yeah, you’ve been doing such great work. I’ve, I felt like this was appropriate that you needed to be raised up

Umar Hameed 12:21
Sweet.

Mike Shelah 12:23
And in the 15 plus years, I had been in the industry at that point. No one had ever even suggested doing something like that. She didn’t simply suggest it. She took care of it. And then once it was official, told me that she had done it.

Umar Hameed 12:42
Nice.

Mike Shelah 12:43
And it wasn’t an honorarium. It was a nice bump.

Umar Hameed 12:46
Nice. And that also kind of comes back to leadership again, it’s a lot of times people will have leaders that make promises, and they have every intention of doing so. And many times that because it’s outside of their control doesn’t happen. And here was a leader that basically said, okay, it’s done. And now I’m going to tell Mike, Hey, good job. This is happening on Friday.

Mike Shelah 13:10
Yep.

Umar Hameed 13:11
Because, you know, leadership is all about managing and setting expectations in a way that you get the most out of the people that you’re leading,

Mike Shelah 13:18
I’ll qualify that, life is about managing expectations.

Umar Hameed 13:23
Absolutely. Because the ultimate leadership is leading ourselves

Mike Shelah 13:26
Mm hmm.

Umar Hameed 13:26
To reach our potential and not stuck wherever we choose to our development stops. So let’s take a look at the sales profession as a whole. What do you think the biggest challenges right now and selling today?

Mike Shelah 13:39
I think it’s twofold. I think most sales people don’t take the time to develop themselves. And I know I was guilty of this for a very long time. I was in that camp of, I know everything there is to know about sales. After all, I’ve read Zig Ziglar. And so they stop. They don’t keep. They don’t know what they don’t know. They don’t keep driving. They don’t keep growing and to compound that most of sales leadership has gotten away from the leadership part of their job. I had a colleague several years ago, who had been in a management role with the company I was at, right and she was transitioning into a direct rep role. And I said to her, why are you doing that? And she said, Well, I’m going to go on Rob’s team, I’ll be one of nine reps, and I’m going to help the other eight people close deals and coach them through and I said, Isn’t that what Rob’s supposed to be doing? And she said, Oh, he’s way too busy to do any of that, like, busy doing what? That’s his job is to lead, mentor, coach, train and it wasn’t just him. It’s, it’s disease in aless overall that people put sales managers into roles. And they have the Manage off an Excel sheet or off of a CRM,

Umar Hameed 15:08
right.

Mike Shelah 15:09
They they missed the leadership part horribly.

Umar Hameed 15:13
And so the new sales leader is a leader coach, that’s helping his or her people get better incrementally as they go. And is that ongoing relationship, which does seem to be catching on? Probably not as fast as it should?

Mike Shelah 15:28
Yes.

Umar Hameed 15:29
And who is this leader you were talking about? That basically wasn’t coaching. He was too busy. First Name?

Mike Shelah 15:33
Rob.

Umar Hameed 15:34
So one of the things that Rob probably did that was brilliant. I don’t even know, Rob, is he might have sucked at that coaching side of things. And to bring somebody that was more talented into it. That’s leadership too. Right?

Mike Shelah 15:47
It can be Yeah, that’s a good way to look at it.

Umar Hameed 15:50
So it’s all about perspective.

Mike Shelah 15:52
Yep.

Umar Hameed 15:52
And mine could be totally wrong. But What the Hey, Mike, how do you land quality appointments? Because ultimately, getting in front of the people that can hire you, and cut you big checks is what it’s all about. But how do you go about doing that?

Mike Shelah 16:03
In my LinkedIn training, I talked about borrowing and leveraging trust. And it’s as simple as you have a good relationship with a tight core of people. Yes. Let’s say that tight chorus five people, your first goal is to add a sixth person.

Umar Hameed 16:30
Make sense.

Mike Shelah 16:30
and continue to build that trust that you have with those six,

Mike Shelah 16:34
Right.

Mike Shelah 16:35
and then build it to seven? Now, there’s no timetable for this? Because it’s important that you keep the good people good,

Umar Hameed 16:43
Right.

Mike Shelah 16:43
And then through platforms like LinkedIn, you figure out, who do I good people know, that could be good clients for me. And then you ask them, to introduce you. Because when you’re borrowing that trust from them,

Umar Hameed 17:03
Right.

Mike Shelah 17:03
the likelihood that that person doesn’t know you says, Yes, I will meet with you goes up 10 fold.

Umar Hameed 17:09
Makes sense. Basically, what you’re saying is don’t lose sight of the basics. And anytime a coach comes into a new team, the first thing they say is, we’re going back to the basics. And I think when we get caught up in sales or life, we try and develop new strategies. And it comes down to one human connecting with another.

Mike Shelah 17:26
Yes.

Umar Hameed 17:26
And if I’ve got trust with Mike and Mike says, you know, I’ve got a friend you should talk to? Or if I say, Mike, could you introduce me to this person? And that’s how you build trusting relationships that extend. If it’s done, right, that person that Mike introduces me to is someone that becomes part of our trusted circle, because he owes Mike one. It’s like, well, thank you so much for introducing me to Umar that’s helped my business. So everybody wins, as long as we have that trust, and we do phenomenal work and going back to expectations, over deliver and under promise and make sure people are ecstatically happy.

Mike Shelah 17:59
Yeah, I call it connect and cultivate.

Umar Hameed 18:01
Nice. So how do you lead a sales team before?

Mike Shelah 18:04
Not in a very long time? Early on in my career, I was given a couple of opportunities. And I was given the opportunity based on my own personal performance. And what I found was I wasn’t ready to connect and mentor and coach people,

Umar Hameed 18:21
Right because goes back to that Clint Eastwood movie Dirty Harry, a man’s got to know his limitations.

Mike Shelah 18:26
Yep.

Umar Hameed 18:26
And I did not. Right now, is that something you’d like to do or just keep your company small?

Mike Shelah 18:31
I love the idea of mentoring and training others. In fact, I was approached by a large company last weekend, totally was not looking for the opportunity. But they’re interested in having me come in and train their sales team

Umar Hameed 18:47
Nice.

Mike Shelah 18:47
on a regular like a full time basis. And that really excited me because I talked to them about what their plan is, and what’s important to them and how they want to go about it. And so often, sales training is lacking,

Umar Hameed 19:02
Right.

Mike Shelah 19:03
corporate level, but this organization is smart enough to recognize, you know, we want to do a few things differently. There’s some value to changing how we go about this thing. And one of the big things that they put an emphasis on is coaching the sales managers , coaching the coaches, because it’s leverage, it’s multiplying your efforts. If I spend a ton of time really helping the sales managers, then the time I spend with the sales reps will be much more powerful.

Umar Hameed 19:31
Absolutely. And I think a lot of times for corporations, the trouble spot is not the people on the ground, and it isn’t people hire executives is middle management, because they often get left out in the training. And they’re like, well, they should know what they’re doing. And that’s where most of the lawsuits end up coming is from middle management. Or just think of how much money gets left on the table. If you have an ineffective sales manager that is maximizing the sales team.

Mike Shelah 19:53
Yep.

Umar Hameed 19:54
So if you were not in one of those positions where you’re working with a company,

Mike Shelah 19:57
Mm hmm

Umar Hameed 19:57
how would you know you’re hiring the right sales rep. What do you have to see or hear or know, to validate your decision to hire?

Mike Shelah 20:04
I think there are two answers to that. One is, how open are they to learning?

Umar Hameed 20:11
Right.

Mike Shelah 20:11
When you get a sense that they’re on the journey themselves already?

Umar Hameed 20:15
Mm hmm

Mike Shelah 20:15
Or if they’re not? And you say, Well, how open are you to it? And you get a sense that their answers authentically Yes, then you could teach skills you can’t teach ethic.

Umar Hameed 20:26
And I think another way of asking the same question is, what are you learning right now?

Mike Shelah 20:30
Mm hmm.

Umar Hameed 20:30
If there’s a blank look, then you know, and if it’s like, I’m learning this, if they’re learning it, they’re gonna be excited about it.

Mike Shelah 20:36
Yes

Umar Hameed 20:37
If they go, you know, I’m learning this. And you know, it’s kinda interesting. And it’s helping me grow as a sales rep. And you can tonality body language saying, I don’t think so.

Mike Shelah 20:45
Yep.

Umar Hameed 20:45
So how would you know, it’s time to let someone go, you got a sales rep. What do you have to see here or physically be able to grab a whole lot to let you know, it’s time to let this person go?

Mike Shelah 20:54
Well, I think you just touched on it, it goes a lot into their body language and how they’re acting, how they’re reacting. But the step before that, that I think most leaders missed, again, because they’re so overwhelmed is what have you done to help this person? Because you hired him for a reason.

Umar Hameed 21:12
Right

Mike Shelah 21:13
You didn’t hire an idiot, you hired somebody that had a ton of potential. So why has that not gone the way that you wanted it to? And most sales leaders will sell you? Oh, when they were lazy, they had a bad attitude. And they weren’t prospecting enough. Which came first? Yeah, I know, in my personal career, every time I took a job, I took it with the intention of being there for a very long time. And then somewhere along the way, there was that moment that occurred, and I said, Oh, you’re just like everybody else. You don’t actually care about me one bit.

Umar Hameed 21:46
So it kind of goes back to that, you know, when you’re the leader, Great leaders ask that question. What’s my part in this?

Mike Shelah 21:53
Mm hmm

Umar Hameed 21:54
And when you start seeing the signs, what do I need to do to figure out what the issue is, and help people improve in those areas?

Mike Shelah 22:00
Yep,

Umar Hameed 22:00
because ultimately, at the end of the day, sales mechanically is not a difficult thing to do. There’s a mindset component, which is a

Mike Shelah 22:08
great way to put it mechanically, it is not difficult at all, I like that.

Umar Hameed 22:11
But people like the internal stuff gets in the way of us executing the things that we need to execute. And as leaders, if we monitor that not micromanage, there’s a company in town called boresight, lychee. In town, meaning Tyson’s corner ish area, what they did was they brought some software in that looked at what their inside sales people were doing. So there was a camera looking at their body language. They were monitoring what they typed in the computer, and they were recording the calls. And the sales rep themselves could actually go rate the call, great call, or challenging call. And everybody had turned the webcam up towards the ceiling, because the leadership hadn’t explained what the purpose of the software was. It’s not to micromanage you. It’s at the end of the week, when we sit down together and say, Mike, why don’t you bring up a call that went really well, let’s look at that call together, see what you did, what was going on, and a call that you found challenging, and then the sales manager can go, Oh, this is why it was challenging. When you said this, it went on attention next time, don’t do that. So it was all designed to actually give them coaching, give them validation on what they did well, and they did a really good job on one of those calls that went in the Hall of Fame calls that other reps could listen to. And if they had an issue, then the sales manager could actually be a great coach and coach them on something rather than a week later, I had a bad call with this customer. What happened? Well, he didn’t quite get it. And it’s like, no use.

Mike Shelah 23:35
Yeah.

Umar Hameed 23:35
Once the sales reps figured out why the software was there, they started using it, and their sales went up 20%. Because their coaches, their managers could actually coach them properly now, as opposed to guessing what they needed to do. So it’s all about that trust in that connection. And how do you become that manager that can lead people in the direction that they need to go? As you consult with your clients? How do you help them figure out if they’re paying their salespeople fairly? Like, how would you pay a salesperson fairly? How do you know what that number is?

Mike Shelah 24:05
There’s a couple of things that go into that. It’s what is the marketplace dictating first of all, for and for the level of experience. So I have a very good friend who owns a technology company, and he has been in business for almost 20 years,

Umar Hameed 24:19
Nice.

Mike Shelah 24:19
He’s doing something right? But he can’t seem to hold on to salesperson. And he was telling me about the caliber of salesperson that he wants. And he told me what he was paying the last guy I said, Well, I’ll tell you that what you were paying the last guy was probably appropriate for him. But the salesperson you want to hire won’t consider that they’ll they’ll just they’ll laugh at it. And he said oh well you know you can make unlimited commissions I’m like yeah, everybody for almost Well, almost everybody promises unlimited Commission’s, but the general rule of thumb is 50-50 you know, half year earnings come from your salary and half comes from commissions if you’re doing your job. And then the question is, well, how did you come up with quota? isn’t an arbitrary number? Is it a number that the company needs? Is that number reasonable for an individual, maybe that number needs to be split between two people.

Umar Hameed 25:18
Right.

Mike Shelah 25:18
There’s all these factors that they just don’t take the time to think through. And if they did, they probably have happier sales people and a happier sales team.

Umar Hameed 25:32
And it kind of goes back to that perspective place again. This is an owner that’s got his perspective on what should be happening. It should be thankful for a job, they’ve got unlimited potential, and just being able to step into their shoes for a moment and see it from their point of view. I think there’s lots of data out there that people need to earn a certain level of income. I wonder what Donald Trump’s nut is every month, probably quite high. So if you wanted to hire him, it would be a high number. Because if you want lower, so you need to figure out how much money we need to pay so that money doesn’t become an issue. We’re not going to get rich on it, but it takes a worry away. And that base is important to cover. And then how do we inspire people to go beyond the quota and grow and it takes collaboration between you and the sales team?

Mike Shelah 26:13
Mm hmm.

Umar Hameed 26:14
So there’s a ton of sales trainings out there. What sales training would you recommend? Someone was looking for something off the shelf?

Mike Shelah 26:20
off the shelf?

Umar Hameed 26:22
or customize? What would you recommend?

Mike Shelah 26:23
I personally have been through some Sandler Training.

Umar Hameed 26:27
Mm hmm.

Mike Shelah 26:27
I’ve been through some Dale Carnegie training. I’ve read a ton of Jeffrey Gitomer read a ton of Zig Ziglar, Joe KohnRath, the options are almost unlimited. I think what a salesperson has to do is be diverse, because most people will agree that Zig Ziglar was a great salesperson,

Umar Hameed 26:49
Right.

Mike Shelah 26:50
But his content isn’t necessarily timeless,

Umar Hameed 26:53
Right

Mike Shelah 26:53
And some of the newer sales leaders out there like Jill Konrath, and her snap selling program, fascinating stuff. And what you should be able to do, is again, it’s like a puzzle. So you take a piece from Jill and you take a piece from Zig, and you take a piece from Sandler and you take a piece from Dale Carnegie,

Umar Hameed 27:13
making Mike’s

Mike Shelah 27:13
Yeah. And once you’re done, then you can you have this complete picture, because there are plenty of wrong ways to sell.

Umar Hameed 27:21
Mm Hmm

Mike Shelah 27:21
But there is no one right way it really comes down to your comfort level. And where you are professionally in the way that I sell now is radically different than it was 20 years ago. And that has a lot to do with the impact of technology. And when I first got into telecom sales, I was a cold calling machine,

Umar Hameed 27:41
Right.

Mike Shelah 27:41
I’d make 100, 120 calls a day, and I could set three or four appointments. And that would give me what I needed to close for the week. But when caller ID and voicemail became standard,

Umar Hameed 27:51
Right

Mike Shelah 27:51
that method almost completely stopped working. A lot of people want to argue with me Will cold call works. I’m like, Okay, if you want to say it works, I won’t disagree with you what I will say it’s a very ineffective use of your time to spend eight hours in a day and maybe get to get to maybe get one reading out of it

Umar Hameed 28:08
is the number. So I figured out something really amazing the other day, they still produced these things called

Mike Shelah 28:13
phone books?

Umar Hameed 28:14
And I was walking up the office the other day, and somebody had a sign on the street for their new store, and the wind was gonna blow it away. So they had three phone books holding the sign down as like, finally a use for a phone book. So all salespeople sometimes, you know, hit a slump, or they get a defeat, how would you help a sales rep bounce back rebound?

Mike Shelah 28:35
I had a conversation with a client I was coaching about a month ago and she was on her way to a very big appointment,

Umar Hameed 28:41
right.

Mike Shelah 28:42
And she was terrified because her boss couldn’t go and the partner couldn’t go. She had to run the meeting by herself. And I said, What are you worried about? She said, it’s a big deal. I said, big house. She goes, it’s worth a lot of money. I said, Okay, let’s say you go into this meeting, and it goes as bad as you could have possibly expect,

Umar Hameed 29:03
right

Mike Shelah 29:03
He takes your bag from you throws it out the window and says get out and never come back. Are you going to die? No, I said, then it doesn’t really matter. I was thinking this morning about something I’m working on from like SEO consulting in a great quote from Jeffrey Gitomer came up when we have a problem, say to yourself, if you had $10,000, would you have this problem?

Umar Hameed 29:24
Right.

Mike Shelah 29:24
And if the answer’s no, then you don’t really have a problem. You don’t have a sustained problem.

Umar Hameed 29:30
Right.

Mike Shelah 29:30
You don’t have a terminal illness, you don’t something like that. We’re going to have bad days, and we’re going to have great days. And we’ll have those days where we just feel like we’re punching the ticket and just showing up mate going through the motions. That’s part of life.

Umar Hameed 29:47
Right.

Mike Shelah 29:47
And that’s the biggest thing is to keep that perspective that you have the great days of high you have the bad days down low and you have those days in the middle. They’re all going to happen despite your best efforts and planning.

Umar Hameed 29:59
So that advice you gave her, first time I came across it was Marcus Aurelius, Emperor of Rome. He he has a book out there, I don’t remember the name and every chapter has a punch line and the punch line is, so how bad really is it at least you’re not going to die. And that was his thing. perspective. You’re not going to die. What’s the big deal? You can fix it later move on. So coming to the last part of the show, which is just closing this whole thing down. Mike, what’s something you know, now that you wish you knew 10 years ago, that would have made you more successful or happier or both?

Mike Shelah 30:31
That I could go into business for myself?

Umar Hameed 30:33
Brilliant. What’s the best business advice you’ve ever received?

Mike Shelah 30:36
Do it because you love it.

Umar Hameed 30:37
Yeah.

Mike Shelah 30:38
That’s the ultimate inspiration to keep going.

Umar Hameed 30:40
How important is the salespersons mindset to their ability to produce?

Mike Shelah 30:45
It is second only to their health.

Umar Hameed 30:49
Right now, it’s September 2017. The business climate? Do you think it’s going up or going down or status quo?

Mike Shelah 30:56
Compared to what?

Umar Hameed 31:00
You were kind of like feel talking to customers? Like, is there optimism in Hey, the market business is getting stronger? Or is it pessimism or is just business as usual?

Mike Shelah 31:09
I’ve been through the tech bubble. I’ve been through the housing bubble. And I’m sure there’s another bubble coming up in the next six to 12 months. I hear people say it’s tough to sell in the summer. I hear people say it’s tough to sell in the winter. It’s tough to sell, as you said mechanically, it’s not a difficult process. But if you work on your mindset, for sure, I was I was working through some goals and objectives for myself this morning, I got up at 5:30 to walk the dog, right. And that’s my best thinking time because I’m other than a dog, I’m completely alone. My neighborhood is very quiet at 5:30 in the morning, I was thinking through an objective that I had and what I needed to get done this week, and I started listing all the different ways I could get it done. And I felt this incredible pressure come off my shoulders, because I had crystallized in my head. I can do this this week. I’m completely capable of it. I have good reason to be worried.

Umar Hameed 32:04
Right.

Mike Shelah 32:05
But I’m completely capable of doing this.

Umar Hameed 32:09
Brilliant and I think it comes back to the although the macro has influence.

Mike Shelah 32:14
Mm hmm.

Umar Hameed 32:14
But you have total control on yourself and the micro you can control Yep. And so it doesn’t matter if it’s going up or down. As long as you’re focused on what needs to be done. You’re gonna be okay.

Mike Shelah 32:24
What’s the one thing I can do today to lead to my success? That’s a Pico lash quote.

Umar Hameed 32:28
I can’t wait to go Pete. So Mike, before we close off, how can people get ahold of you?

Mike Shelah 32:33
I am very googleable. Once you know how to spell my last name S- H-E-L-A-H, you will find me at my website which is Mikeshelah.com. You will find me on LinkedIn naturally at Mike Shelah. My Twitter handle and my Instagram handles are both at Mike Shelah and I have a Mike Shelah business page which is Mike Shelah consulting and my number is 443-808-1670.

Umar Hameed 32:58
Mike, thanks so much for dropping by and I really enjoyed the conversation.

Mike Shelah 33:02
Umar, thank you for having me this was a lot of fun.

Umar Hameed 33:08
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to iTunes and leave a five-star rating. And if you’re looking for more tools, go to my website at nolimitsselling.com. I’ve got a free mind training course there, that’s going to teach you some insights from the world of neuro-linguistic programming and that is the fastest way to get better results.

About the Author Umar Hameed

I am a performance coach who uses Applied Neuroscience to help individuals and teams break through their barriers so they become awesomer! Take a look at my Motivational Speaker Kit

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