Scott Mautz is a popular keynote speaker and three-time award-winning author, including the Amazon #1 bestseller, Leading from the Middle: A Playbook for Managers to Influence Up, Down, and Across the Organization.
He’s a former Procter & Gamble senior executive who successfully ran several of the company’s largest multi-billion-dollar businesses.
Scott is Faculty at Indiana University’s Kelley School of Business for Executive Education and a LinkedIn Learning instructor.
He’s been named a “CEO Thought-leader” by The Chief Executives Guild and a "Top 50 Leadership Innovator" by Inc.com, where his column drew nearly 2 million monthly readers.
Scott’s the Founder/CEO of Profound Performance™, a keynote, training, and coaching company that helps you ignite profound performance.
[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]
Umar Hameed 0:01
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone. My name is Umar Hameed, I'm your host on the No Limits Selling Podcast where industry leaders share their tips, strategies, and advice on how you can become better, stronger, faster. Just before we get started, I've got a question for you. Do you have a negative voice inside your head? We all do, right? I'm gonna help you remove that voice and under 30 days guaranteed not only remove it but transform it. So instead of the voice that sabotages you, there's one that propels you too much higher levels of performance and success. There's a link in the show notes. Click on it to find out more. All right, let's get started.
Umar Hameed 0:41
Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of The No Limits Selling podcast. Today, I had the privilege of having Scott Mautz here. Hopefully I pronounced it right, Scott, how are you?
Scott Mautz 0:52
Oh, you did? Well, Umar. Thank you so much.
Umar Hameed 0:54
Your book is leading from the middle, I'm going to go deep into that in a minute. Because for most people, it's like, No, you got to be at the top to lead. And it turns out, you can be at the bottom and in the middle. And so what is leadership to you? How do you define leadership?
Scott Mautz 1:09
Yeah, to me, leadership is knowing that it's not all about you. That's really, at the centerpiece of it that it's you know, it's about leading yourself for sure. But then it's starting with a focus on other human beings around you. And I don't know about you, Umar. But I've always found like, if that fundamental tenet is true in the leader if they truly believe that, they're going to get a lot of forgiveness to do a lot more things right than they do wrong. Right. What do you agree with that?
Umar Hameed 1:37
Absolutely. I think what's kind of interesting, at least to me is this is the intent is so important when whenever you do anything, and especially leadership, if the intent is I'm your boss, and even if you do something that's like, quote-unquote, kind, pick that pick up that intent is like, no, you're still a jerk to talk to me about intent and reality. Because sometimes, what we want to do, and what we end up doing are two different things. Because intent gets in the way.
Scott Mautz 2:06
Yeah, and I often tell people, they have to focus leaders, you have to focus first on your content, as much as your intent. And if your intent is pure, you know, people are generally good to really get to know it. You know, by the way, I also say you can always make mistakes of, you know, all kinds of mistakes as leaders except for the mistake of motive, and what's your intent behind what you're trying to do. So people really can sense that when your intent is wrong. But at the same time, you know, how many times have you met leaders that their intent was dead on and the content of what they were trying to do? didn't line up with their intent? Right? So you have to make sure there's a purity between the two of them, right? That makes sense, right?
Umar Hameed 2:48
Absolutely. Well, before we got on the air, I was telling you that I've got a handyman working today in the house. And let me go make sure he's doing okay, so here's the thing not to like about Mike, Mike, what he's doing, he makes it look effortless and easy. And it's just like two swipes of the towel. And it's a perfect wall. And so I think the same is true. We see these leaders that they're so talented, that they make it look effortless and easy. And it's they didn't get there magically, there was a journey of them getting that skill set, just like Mike, he's 71 years old. So he's got a lot of experience. And he says, it's all about the wrist. So talk to me about that fallacy that leadership is so easy because we have these role models, we hold up and they're like, here are the five rules of leadership. And it's like, yes, but there's a lot more behind it and a lot more within you, that I may not have.
Scott Mautz 3:40
Yeah, you know, I, I talked about that exact question a lot, Umar in leading from the middle, which I'll get to in a minute, but, you know, I talk an awful lot about the concept of others oriented leadership. And it's in the same branches, servant leadership, right. We all know the concept of servant leadership by now and it inverts the typical corporate hierarchy and says, Well, actually, you're there to serve those that work for you. And I think that's wonderful and powerful. And I subscribe to servant leadership. But sometimes what we miss when we follow servant leadership, is that at times that you really have to know when it's time for you to step up and lead from the front, rather than just leading from behind and pushing the troops forward. A lot of times, leaders above you, they want to know that, you know, yeah, oh, there's some little magical sound effects to show up. Yeah. So they want to know that, you know, and, you know, I find that just coming from a place of if you have an orientation of it's not all about you, it's about enabling others and being smart enough that that doesn't mean you can just step into the background and become part of the woodwork. You know, there's times when you have to take the lead. I find that to be a wonderful blend of the best of both worlds.
Umar Hameed 4:52
Absolutely. And I think, at least from my point of view, if you're a leader of a company, let's say there's three primary response abilities. One is to have a kick ass amazing vision, that strategically sound that inspires people to go that's worth fighting for, and to the culture of the organization where people, including the leader put the company first and themselves. Second, because all too often, our selfishness, no matter where we are in the organization gets in the way of us performing. And when we, it's not about me, it's not about my department, it's about how do we win, it changes things. And then last but not least, long term shareholder value increasing that. Thoughts on that concept?
Scott Mautz 5:35
I think it's dead on. And you know, the thing that I would add to that Umar is to ensure that you're treating culture not as an afterthought, but as a guiding thought. And, you know, my experiences as a leader with many, many, many years in the leadership home, I can tell you that some of the best cultures are born when leaders create meaning for their followers, that and we know more and more from data today, especially with now millennials and Gen Z's. Now, as of about two months ago, making up the majority of the workforce, we know that especially driven by them, people and employees, they're looking for meaning in their work, how you know, it's not perks, it's not promotions, it's not pay, it's a culture driven around meaning, are you creating a learning and growth environment for them? Are you helping them to feel a sense of self competency and self-esteem? Do they feel like they're working in a caring environment, all these things that create meaning for their leader? So I think you have a great model, I would just add that flavor to it.
Umar Hameed 6:34
Oh, absolutely. And, I think one of the things that's quite annoying, is, it's almost a cliche. Now, you have to have a Why, what's your WHY? And I kind of feel like saying, EFF off, okay. Because a lot of times, it's just a checkbox, and it's not legit. And if we can, if there's a founder of a company, and they're leading the company, and we figured out, what's their purpose, why they're on planet earth, and align that with a company, they get to be the poster child, that is the model for how they want others to react. But all too often it's like, well, let's figure out what our employees want what our customers think what we think, and we'll do this committee thing of this is our why. And that, I think, is bullshit. And if we can do an a legitimate, why people will be attracted and others not. But that there's something about that authenticity that sparks commitment, and trust, and tenaciousness.
Scott Mautz 7:30
Yeah, I think you're right. Umar. You know, I've found over the years that a good proxy for purpose that is more authentic, like you're talking about, is simply to ask employees to live according to their values, and to bring their values to the workplace. Every day, you know, values, of course, those little things that exemplify who we are the, you know, the daily little things that make a huge permanent impression, just being clear on what's important to you, as a human being, how do you want to show up to your fellow man and woman, and then living that way at work is a tremendous source of purpose. You don't have to go through all these vast grandiose exercises, it becomes authentic by default, right? Because it's what's most important to you? True, right?
Umar Hameed 8:11
Absolutely. The only other thing I'd add to it, which is probably already there is a lot of people a don't know what the values are, they have a sense of it, they've never taken to figure it out.
Scott Mautz 8:21
Umar Hameed 8:22
And the second thing is, even if they do know what it is, oftentimes, they don't know the criteria that the mind uses to know whether they're on track or off track. So a good example of that would be, you know, my value is working hard, is really important. And it's like, Okay, how will you know that you're working hard? What would you be able to see, hear, or physically touch, and all of a sudden, they go, Oh, would I be, and then they get that articulation. And that way, they actually know when they're actually working hard, or just have the illusion of working hard, because oftentimes, I work hard. And I'm being super lazy.
Scott Mautz 9:01
You're right, you're, you're also the data supports exactly what you're saying Umar, because we know that between, depending on the survey, in the study, between 45 to 55% of us can't articulate our most closely held non-negotiable values. So that kind of introspection that you're talking about is a critical part of the process to unearth what your values really are. Integrate your metrics, so you know what good looks like what do you see it in living a value, right? So yeah, excellent point.
Umar Hameed 9:26
So, Scott, can I ask a big favor?
Scott Mautz 9:28
Umar Hameed 9:29
During this interview our nine minutes together, you have said, You're right. Umar, many times. Could you talk to my wife for me, please?
Scott Mautz 9:38
Well, I know knowledge and insight when I see it and believe me, I have the same problem. I'm we're the masters of our own domain, aren't we? That Well, we can.
Umar Hameed 9:48
I'm not sure that this quote it's totally brilliant. I'm gonna paraphrase here. We all suck at something interesting. Corollary to what we're talking about, there's always there's one area where we're masters of what we do and I think all too often remember that book from Jim Collins. Good to Great.
Scott Mautz 10:05
Umar Hameed 10:06
And he had that hedgehog principle where he had that Venn diagram with three things. And one of the circles was, what's something you could be best in the world at. And for me, it's whatever your issue is within 30 days removing it. So if it's procrastination, or need to be light, so just knowing what, I may not be best in the world, but I'm probably top 5%. But just knowing even if I was top 60%, just knowing what it is and striving towards it, lets you improve what you're doing. Because if you focus on it, you're going to get better. So, Scott, for you, what's the one area you're best in the world that or are striving to do? So?
Scott Mautz 10:45
Yeah, that's a great question. I call that just trying to find your superpowers. Right.
Umar Hameed 10:49
Scott Mautz 10:50
And use them for good, not for evil. And, I'll answer your question directly. I did want to make a side comment on that. Umar, which is, sadly, we know, through our research, that I do that far too many people believe they don't have a superpower. And it's just, it's not true. We all have something that we're uniquely skilled and put on this planet to do that we can develop along the way. So, I do want to make that as a side caveat that it's true of everyone, not just a Scott mountain. Umar. Right. So, relative to me, you know, I certainly strive to be world-class as a keynote speaker, author, and thought leader, and I know by default, you have many of those people on your show, you know, I, I get that. So what makes me different, what separates me apart, I work hard at finding the intersection of all three things, Umar of insight.
Umar Hameed 11:41
Scott Mautz 11:41
Passion brought to the table, and real data with practical pragmatic application, it's hard to find someone that can deliver all three of those things, some do you know, one better than others. I tried, I try for the intersection of all three of those things. I think that's applicable to any kind of business, really, but that's what I strive for.
Umar Hameed 12:00
Yeah. But what's really interesting is, you can be really famous on any one of those three, but then it just becomes a useful story or useful data. But the question is, you know, I want people in your audience to say, Scott, shut the hell up. So I can go back to my office, I'm going to use what you just taught me when we get them that excited. That's, that's pretty phenomenal. Right? When you get those emails from people to you saying, Scott, that thing that you did, I'm using it is working great. It's totally brilliant, that I suspect makes you very happy.
Scott Mautz 12:29
I, I think it does. And can I give you a quick example of that, or what you're what you're talking about it? What's put it you know, I just not so long ago, you know, I launched this, this book leading from the middle is coming out May 18. And I'm very proud to say share this with humility, that it's already the number one bestseller on Amazon in Management Science, because.
Umar Hameed 12:51
Scott Mautz 12:51
It's in the books not even out yet. And I share that because of the notes I beginning on. Okay, Scott, so many people have been talking about CEOs. And when you get to the C-suite, here's what you need to do. Or you're just starting out in your job, how do you get off to a fast start, and there's this big band of people in the middle called middle managers that have been forgotten about and, and that's kind of my this book leading for the middle is my love letter to middle managers. And I'm starting to get notes now from people saying, I can't wait to read this, because you're owning a space that nobody else owns. And that gives me that impact. You were just talking about, Umar that makes me feel like, Okay, I'm onto something special, I'm doing something better than other people can't do and it just drives me to want to do it even better, you know, to be honest with you to dig more and learn more about the topic.
Umar Hameed 13:39
Absolutely. And I'm not sure there's data behind this, but certainly feels that way. for corporations. Most of the lawsuits come from the middle. Middle managers are neglected. And it's like Alright, now you're a manager, Good luck go do and so they actually need someone to help them do a better job and also help the entire organization now because there's always a disconnect from the top to the bottom and the bottom to the top and it blocks in that middle area.
Scott Mautz 14:06
Yeah, you are once again, you know, we need your wifey here.
Umar Hameed 14:09
Honey are you listening?
Scott Mautz 14:09
You are correct. And I'm gonna back it up with data what you just said, we found this out for the book I leading for the middle that the bottom get ready for this one, the bottom 5% in any organization. In terms of happiness, and fulfillment, the bottom 5% tend to be not people that are doing terrible at their jobs, not people that are so new to the job, they realize I'm a terrible fit for this. The bottom 5% in terms of happiness levels and engagement levels, tend to be middle managers who are doing excellent in their job they have between five to 10 years of tenure, but the nature of their job is so difficult having to lead up down into the cross, that they become disenfranchised. And does that lead to lawsuits and things that you know, it takes many forms of disengagement and disfranchisement. So yeah, you're 100% right there.
Umar Hameed 15:02
So, Scott, give us some give us three tips from leading from the middle that people could apply and would go wins this frickin book coming out, I want to get it now.
Scott Mautz 15:14
Okay, very quickly first definition, when I say middle manager, by the way, Umar. I mean anybody who has a boss, and is a boss and has to lead down and across their organization to make an influence. So there are very upper-middle managers, you can be in the C-suite and still be a middle manager. There are mid-middle managers and lower-middle managers and even people that technically don't have people reporting to them yet, could still be in benefit from the book, because before you know it, they're going to have to manage other people. So here's, what I'll do. I'll give you one tip for managing up your boss one tip for managing down the people that report to you. And one tip for managing your cross. And I'll use it based on the most common requests that I get. So for leading up, you know.
Umar Hameed 15:56
Scott Mautz 15:56
I think you're gonna find this surprising, Umar. Most people say, okay, Scott, I got it. The reason that the middle manager job is so exhausting, is because, you know, of all these hats that I have to wear. And you know, when it tires me out, in Well, what turns out when it comes to leading up, there's a more basic kind of evil at work here. And that is the lack of understanding on expectations of what bosses expect from their employees and vice-versa. We're up to almost 300 studied 300 supportive boss pairings that we've been studying it in over 80% of the cases, Umar are those boss-subordinate pairings, there have been material breaches in basic understanding of expectations. So even when we ask these pairings, Are you clear on what your boss expects of you? Yes. Then we asked the boss, are you do you think your employee understands what's expected of them? Yes, then we interview them individually. And we find out the disconnect is tremendous. it lines up Gallup has reported similar data, we know that 50% of Americans aren't even very clear on the basics of what their job is expecting. Sorry, you were going to interject and ask question, please.
Umar Hameed 17:01
Yeah, well, since you're talking about wives, I mean, that's just a husband-wife. Same kind of thing where I think she understands me She ends. And this will be two different realities happening there. We can't figure out why there's all this friction. Again, that's a very human thing, right?
Scott Mautz 17:17
It's a very, very human thing. And we were talking about Jim Collins before Good to Great, there's a simple exercise you can follow to get clear and expectations that follows the spirit of that, which is you literally sit down with your boss and you say, Okay, let's use leadership as an example, right? Umar. Okay, boss, tell me, what do you think good leadership looks like? And then you literally write down a definition. Now, what does great leadership look like? Then you write down that definition, and the specificity forces the boss to get very clear on what they really expect? Great performance to look like? Because we know from research that what we tend to do when we set expectations, we get very lazy, we paint general pictures, assuming the employee will paint in the rest of the details. And what that ends up happening, it creates confusion and a misunderstanding. So, sitting down to define good versus great on metrics that are important to you and your boss is critical for leading up make sense. Make sense?
Umar Hameed 18:12
Scott Mautz 18:14
Right, let's keep on moving. leading down. Okay, now you got to manage your employees, your employees, by far, this is the number one question that I get Umar. Okay, oh, my gosh, I have responsibility for people now. How do I give feedback in a way that actually works? Because I stink at it. And I go into a lot of detail this and leading. You're trying screaming threats. Number one on my list. withholding paid No, none of that stuff. giving feedback. Okay, here's a couple of classic tips. And I go deep into the book on the biggest mistakes that we make and giving feedback. And some of the best tips here's a few tips. You got to be specific. I know it's basic, and yet we don't do it. My grandpa used to say, Umar. White bread ain't nutritious. Same thing with feedback, he can't give white bland generic feedback, it has to be more like whole grain bread, specific, granular, to be able to nurture and give nutrients to the person, you got to be specific, you got to be sincere. If it comes from the heart, it sticks in the mind, you got to be calibrating meaning if you're giving feedback to someone, especially if it's corrective feedback, you have to put context around it. So let's say, Umar, I've given you feedback. I don't know I need your podcast and how you deliver it. Right? I have to tell you, if I give you feedback, while you know Umar, you know, I don't like the blue wall background, I think you should go with a red wall background. I have to give you context and say, well, because most other podcasters have really figured out the wall color behind them. And you're falling behind, but that's okay. It's natural. Or I have to rally a little bit and say you didn't understand. If you don't change your wall color. You're gonna fall way behind other podcasts, right? I have to give you context to so you can calibrate the feedback. Otherwise, you're going to assume the worst. One other tip, you have to be proportionate. We know as human beings, we do a lot more things good than bad. And research is now showing us that for every one piece of corrective feedback, give five pieces of supportive feedback. We now know that the human psyche needs about that ratio, to feel okay, and ready to receive the corrective feedback, when it's time to receive that. Just a few tips and give me feedback makes sense? Yeah, timeout go.
Umar Hameed 20:27
Only thing I'd add to that is this is my relationship with you, if I have a high level of trust with you, then even my critical feedback, which will come from a place of love that you will receive in a totally different way, and I don't have to like stroke your ego and just give you five pieces of positive, I think, if you've got enough trust that, so I'm gonna take a step back years ago, I was doing a lot of presentations. And, so I would go to people with or without a high school education in Dublin, Virginia, working at a tire plant to scientists on the west coast, to bankers. And I would say, Okay, I want you to think of some leaders in your life, or people you admire Abe Lincoln, or your coach or your dad or your mom, or whoever, and what are the attributes they have that make them great leaders, and everyone gets the list, and we put the list on the wall, like maybe 150 attributes on the wall. And then I go to people say, Okay, I want you to go to the wall. And the number one most important attribute, put five checkmarks, next to it, and the number to put four and then three, and then two, and then one, the one with the one is the fifth most important to you. And so the entire group does it. So that wall of attributes is different in each group around the country. But when they tally up what's most important, always it was the top five attributes with the same no matter what the level of education was, like, individually, we have differences, but as groups, we know what leadership is about. And certainly, trust and respect. Were the two huge things throughout. And I think that's sometimes leaders get a sense of, you know, I'm over here, and you're over there. And there's like a, like the old school that and stuff. And also it's not like, I want to be Scott's friend. Hey, Scott, how are you? Man? How's it hanging is not good, either. But just building that trust where you can trust my word. And no, I got your back, I think is almost mandatory in leadership. If we can do it. It's a hard thing to do. But I think this book leading from the middle is going to help people figure that out.
Scott Mautz 22:36
I think so. And I want to build on what you said, Umar. So, first of all, you're right, we know that in high trust relationships, the ratio is much better served by two to one or even one to one, you can get away with one good one bet you get. So you're 100%. Right. The other thing I wanted to just add on quickly is everything you said is 100%. True. I think we leaders have to remember, even when they gain that trust, it doesn't take much to lose it right. And I'm sure if you expect it takes usually research shows one violation of deep trust, and you may never recover again. Has that been your experience?
Umar Hameed 23:10
Absolutely. And I think when you're authentic and you have that trust, you can say cool things like this. I don't know what the frick, we're going to do here, but we're gonna figure it out. Whereas when you go, well, we're gonna do this thing and you're like faking it up. And you will get more brownie points for saying, Let's roll up our sleeves and figure this out together. Because I don't know either. But I know this team is going to figure it out. And that actually builds on the trust and makes it stronger than trying to fake that you know what you're doing?
Scott Mautz 23:41
Yeah, very, very well said. I like that a lot. Allah. Yeah, I got to tell you about me to finish out the across. Yeah, absolutely. I will quit. So now I promised I'd give you a tip-up down and across one tip based on the you know, just a huge common question that I get from, you know, many, many listeners and followers amaze. Okay, Scott. So across? What do I do when I don't have formal authority over somebody? Like, what am I supposed to do in that arena, like peers and teams? And what I tell them is, you can use the golden rule of influence. And I first learned about this from author Dan Schwartz. And I labeled it the golden rule of influence because I think that's what it is. Here's how it works. It's simple. We'll do a test with you, Umar. I want you to think now, Umar is someone in your life that has made a tremendous impact on you, but it may be in work would be ideal. But you didn't report to them. They had no formal authority over you. The odds are and tell me how many of these four things are true. They were influential over you despite no authority because they cared, listened, gave, or taught. How many of those four were true about this person in your life?
Umar Hameed 24:55
So I'm actually thinking of someone that wasn't in the company but somebody that I considered a mentor was first came up. And certainly, they were authentic, high amount of trust.
Scott Mautz 25:06
Umar Hameed 25:07
They not so much taught me but modeled the behavior, which is more powerful than teaching they live their words and they have a great heart.
Scott Mautz 25:18
Umar Hameed 25:18
Like it was rough. But they did literally give you the shirt off their back to make sure you were okay over them. And so yeah, all four food groups, I labeled them differently. thing and that's what being human is, is we've got our own experience. But oftentimes, we're chatting about the same stuff.
Scott Mautz 25:37
That's right, if you can revisit these four things caring, listening, giving, teaching, even if by different labels, we continually see in our research over and over again, you're gonna have all the influence that you need over people who don't formally report to you. So there you have it down and across to mark, you can now leave from the middle with brilliance.
Umar Hameed 25:55
Thank you so much for sharing that and everyone get this book. But before we let Scott escape, I have two questions to Scott, are you ready, Scott?
Scott Mautz 26:02
Umar Hameed 26:03
So everyone has a negative voice inside their head that comes up to sabotage when we're doing scary things or different things. What does your voice say to you? And how do you overcome it?
Scott Mautz 26:16
Yeah, mine says, I'm not good enough. And it makes me compare versus other people that are irrelevant. But you know, frankly, when I shouldn't be. And the number one most powerful thing that I do is just remind myself continually, that the only comparison that matters is to who I was yesterday, and whether or not I'm becoming a better version of myself, I stay focused on chasing authenticity, not approval. And I keep working on those things over and over again. And it's very, very powerful and helpful for me.
Umar Hameed 26:50
Brilliant. Second question. What is other than what you've described? Give me one mind hack something you use a simple little trick to get more efficiency or more happiness, or whatever.
Scott Mautz 27:03
I use something called the 50/50 rule. And that's for when things get busy. And scotch and 50 cent. That's exactly that's exactly right. 50% listening to my wife, 50% not right.
Umar Hameed 27:16
Scott Mautz 27:16
Yeah. Smart. No, it's called a 50/50 rule that I practice, and it's for when things get really, really crazy busy. And I just remind myself, okay, everyone, you know, those moments when everyone else is urgent, has become your urgent. And you're just like, what, okay, what am I going to do with my time, I spend 50% of my time on pragmatism 50% on possibility. 50 plus 50 equals 100, which means there's zero time left for spiraling down in negativity. And here's here's why that works. So much for me. 50% pragmatism forces you to say, I'm only given half of my time, to chasing priorities, whether or not they're mine or someone else's, it forces you to be brutal in picking the points that are most important to focus on. The 50% possibility is just born out of data, which shows that when we get crazy busy, the biggest thing that we tend to blow by is possibilities and opportunities in the moment that are presenting themselves. But we can't stop and focus and see from the data or see from all the input coming into our life, we can't see the possibilities or can't see the opportunities because we're too busy managing other people's agenda. So you have to take time to step back and say, it's crazy right now. But what's the biggest opportunity and all of the things flying around about me? So 50/50 rule 50 pragmatism 50 possibility works wonders for me.
Umar Hameed 28:35
Brilliant. So, Scott, we're gonna put all the links to get to you and your book in the show notes. But for the people listening on the treadmill, how can they get ahold of you? How can they get ahold of the book?
Scott Mautz 28:45
You can go to scottmautz.com. s-c-o-t-t-m-a-u-t-z.com. And in fact, for your listeners, I put together a little gift package, if they go to scottmautz.com/free tools. All the listeners of your podcast will get access to my complete leadership and self-leadership toolkit plus a 30-page companion workbook that they can download that goes along with my number one best-selling Amazon book leading from the middle that comes out May 18.
Umar Hameed 29:14
Superb. Scott, thank you so much for 30 minutes that just flew by, and looking forward to our next conversation.
Scott Mautz 29:21
Fantastic conversation. Do you do this well, so I appreciate it, Umar. Thanks for having me on.
Umar Hameed 29:30
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to iTunes and leave a five-star rating. And if you're looking for more tools, go to my website at nolimitsselling.com. I've got a free mind training course there that's going to teach you some insights from the world of neuro-linguistic programming, and that is the fastest way to get better results.