Matthew Pollard is responsible for five multi-million-dollar business success stories, all before the age of 30. His humble beginnings, the adversities he faced, and his epic rise to success show that anyone, with the right motivation and the right strategies, can achieve anything they set their mind to.
Today, Forbes calls him “the real deal,” Global Gurus lists him as a Top 30 Sales Professional, Top Sales World Magazine named him a Top 50 Speaker, and BigSpeak lists him as an international Top 10 Sales Trainer. He’s also the bestselling author of The Introvert’s Edge, which hit the Amazon charts as the 8th Most-Sold Book of the Week, appears on HubSpot’s list of the “Most Highly-Rated Sales Books of All Time,” and was selected by BookAuthority as the #2 “Best Introvert Book of All Time.” His soon-to-be-released second book, The Introvert’s Edge to Networking, has already received endorsements from Harvard, Princeton, Neil Patel, Michael Gerber, Dr. Ivan Misner, and Marshall Goldsmith.
P.S. While I have you, have you heard about my new book, The Introvert's Edge to Networking? If you pre-order the hardcover, please email me your receipt, and I'll send you the pre-order bonuses as soon as they're ready. Also, every order drives Amazon to get my work in front of more people, so I'd be honored if you picked up a copy. Thanks in advance for your support!
[Podcast Transcript Using Artificial Intelligence]
Umar Hameed 0:06
Are you ready to become awesomer? Hello everyone. This is Umar Hameed, your host and welcome to the No Limits Selling Podcast, where industry leaders share their tips, strategies and advice on how to make you better, stronger, faster. Get ready for another episode.
Umar Hameed 0:35
Hello everyone. Today I'm really privileged to have Matthew Pollard here with me. He's an author, someone that helps people especially introverts step up and take their place in the world because the world is going to be dominated by them. If Matthew has anything to do with it. Matthew, welcome to the program.
Matthew Pollard 0:51
Made me excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me on.
Umar Hameed 0:54
So before we went live, I incorrectly said Are you a Brit? You said no, I'm an Aussie. So everyone, this is an Australian accent. And so introverts this is the thing that we have in our culture is that you know, it's the extroverts that win. The introverts are like wallflowers, but that's not true. Some of the biggest leaders in our history in business and politics have been introverts, kind of your thoughts on that?
Matthew Pollard 1:17
You know, it's interesting that everyone believes that I think that this is like a false reality. We've just imposed on ourselves as introverts because we see amazing people on stage in sales and networking, leading, you know, the countries that we live in, and we know they must be extroverted. But so often, they're not they're actually they're actually introverted, which is projecting extraversion on them. And you know, amazingly enough, there are the fields that we would consider so called extroverted arenas, like sales and networking, yet the biggest leaders people like Zig Ziglar Ah, you know, he's an introvert. I interviewed his son Tom Ziegler on my introverts edge podcast. And he talked about how much of his his father was an introvert. And then you look at people like Jeb Blount, you know, one of the biggest sales leaders in the world right now who endorsed, sorry, who wrote a foreword for my second book, he's an introvert, and then you go to networking and people like Ivan Meisner, the founder of BSI, the largest networking group in the world. And he's also an introvert, the difference is that when they have systems and structures that they follow, introverts will always beat out their extroverted counterparts. The problem is if we just wing it, which generally is what we do, when we don't believe it's possible for us, then we deliver subpar results, which is why we believe it's not possible for us.
Umar Hameed 2:35
What's interesting is it just so happens I was watching a documentary this morning because I hate working out. But if I'm watching something, it keeps me entertained. And I was watching a documentary on Zig Ziglar this morning.
Matthew Pollard 2:46
Oh, interesting timing, then yes, he's a wonderful man. I mean, an amazing presenter, amazing speaker, amazing sales trainer. And yeah, I mean, he, you know, liked his own quiet time. He liked his personal time. And I, I think the reason why he succeeded so so much is he really was systematic in his process.
Umar Hameed 3:04
We're gonna come back to that, because I think that is the least fun thing to do. But the most important thing to do, but before we get there, my idea of salespeople, you know, when I was younger, was you need to be brash and loud. And Hey, buddy, how are you? And I used to run a video store when they had those creatures way back when, and the Hitachi salesperson, he was a number one salesperson for Hitachi, Canada. And also he worked part time in a plant store. He was the number one salesperson there and he was mild-mannered and quiet. And just very consultative before that was a thing. And that's a perfect example of an introvert being number one, not only in one company, but two companies simultaneously. And that changed the way I saw what sales could be.
Matthew Pollard 3:46
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so often, sales, people that are at the top of all organizations tend to be introverted. I think that, you know, it's and it's not new stuff. I mean, Brian Tracy, who's definitely an extrovert talks about the fact that top 10% of all sales performers globally, have a plan presentation, the bottom 80% just say whatever comes out of their mouth. So as you'd expect the people just in that top echelon, there's probably a mix of introverts and extroverts. But the truth is that introverts are the ones that gravitate to plan presentations. The problem is that the next band of 10%, before the bottom 80, they tend to be mostly extroverts, because they're great at just winging it. The truth is that, you know, we kind of suck as introverts at selling without a plan presentation, which is why we just have this belief that it's not possible. I mean, the thing that I really see is the biggest issue and, you know, it happens when I speak from stage. You know, I deliver presentations that a lot of small business conferences, but even some big tech organizations and medical associations and, you know, finance, financial conferences, and what happens is, I'll speak and I'll share some stories about the strategies that people can use to become successful and you just see the introverts in the room. With it, they're looking at you and they're projecting extraversion upon you. And in their head, they're running this monologue, you know, it's easy for you, but it's not easy for me. Yet, what happens is, you know, about two thirds of the way through that presentation, I'll say, Now most people looking at me probably assuming that I have the gift of gab, I'm just, you know, one of those natural salespeople. Well, the problem is people see me as I am today, not where I started, and then I'll take them through the story about explaining that as an you know, as an introverted, I was actually an introverted kid, I had a reading speed of a sixth grader in late High School, you know, I had horrible acne and, you know, braces back then. And as you can imagine, you know, I got diagnosed with this thing called erland syndrome when I was 16, which means I miraculously can, you know, learn to read by putting on a pair of colored lenses, but there was acne colored funny lenses being used to being this one kid, I didn't exactly have a lot of confidence. And, you know, I hustled to succeed in the last two years of my schooling, and I got into the top 20% of my state. But you know, I was exhausted, my family could see that. So I, we all agreed that I was going to take a year off to find myself and I took a job at a real estate agency. And yeah, I wasn't exactly the person out the front selling, I was the guy in the back office, with the look of my face, saying, you know, don't speak to me, I'm here to find myself for the, but literally, within the space of it was about three weeks, my manager comes up, and he says, Man, I'm so sorry to tell you this, that head office has just decided to close down this office, you're out of a job. Now. I mean, you said that I was from from Australia earlier in Australia closes down at Christmas time. I mean, it's summer and Christmas, in at the same time in Australia in December. And because of that we close on the 20th of December, but most people don't come back to work till the 15th to 20th of January. Now, I'm sure there's...
Umar Hameed 6:42
Matthew Pollard 6:43
...business owners that are listening. And I mean, there's no way you're going to hire someone when you're about to take a month off. The only jobs I could get were these things called Commission on the sales roles. And as you can imagine, as an introvert, I mean, that would have been terrifying. But for me, I was I was horrified at the idea, but I didn't want to go back and tell my father who broke his back 80 hours a week, you know, fight, you know, to support the family that I didn't have a job date, you know, week three into my year off. So I applied for all three jobs. And yeah, I said miraculously at the time, I got all three interviews, and I got all three jobs. I found out later. I mean, turns out, they hire everyone, my manager had this saying we just throw mine up against the wall and see what sticks. And it sounds fine until you, you find that you're the mother. Right? It's a horrible thing.
Umar Hameed 7:27
Matthew Pollard 7:27
So what happened is I you know, the last thing I wanted to do is tell my father that, you know, I broke his back 80 hours a week that, you know, three weeks in, I was out of a job and that there was nothing else I could do. So I looked in the paper and the only jobs that were hiring, were commission only sales roles. And you know, there were three jobs that I applied for. And, you know, I thought I was lucky at the time that I got three interviews. And then I got offered all three jobs. But I found out later that they they hire everybody. I mean, my manager that did hire me for a business to business telecommunications role, actually said, we just have this philosophy, we throw mud up against the wall, and we just see what sticks. I mean, sounds like a fun saying until you realize you have the mud right?
Umar Hameed 8:07
Absolutely. So let me ask you a question, Matthew. So you need to get a job because you've got like the weight of you know, my dad who's probably worked all his life and is like, you got to have a job. And then you're going after these positions that are going to put you out front. So what was that internal dialogue like in terms of "I must do this, but I don't want to do this." What was that like?
Matthew Pollard 8:26
You know, I, I think that for me, life never really worked out for me. I mean, I found you know, everything really difficult. I mean, I had reading issues, school really wasn't, you know, the best situation for me, because, you know, I mean, there's this, this, this graphic that I love to see on social media, and it's, you know, it's a goldfish, and a zebra and giraffe and a monkey. And it is the teacher at the front. And they're like, okay, today's test is everyone's going to learn to climb up this tree. Well, of course, you know, I was the goldfish, there was no way I was going to climb up that tree right there, the world that I knew it didn't work for me. So really, you know, I always had to just push through. So of course, as an introvert that had I mean, the last thing I wanted to do is to be out selling. But you know, I was determined to always push forward. And I think that I put my back up against a wall, but it didn't really exist. I mean, of course, I could have told my father that, you know, I just I didn't have a job. And it was, you know, that was it. But I was unwilling to do that. And I think that a lot of times these days, especially, I mean, the world's not really that hard. If you go back 200 years ago, you know, a tough life would mean starvation. But in truth today, you know, we're always gonna have a roof over our head, at least in most developed countries, we're always going to get enough support to be able to get by, I think it was my unwillingness to accept that that was the way it was going to be.
Umar Hameed 9:49
So Matt, there must have been like a pivotal moment in time where you kind of made that decision because it's a tough thing to do to say, you know, I'm gonna just push through it till you have the audacity and the mindset to do So was there a pivotal event where you made that decision? The only way I'm going to get through this is to just be tenacious.
Matthew Pollard 10:05
Yeah, I'm just trying to think to that. I mean, for me, I for as long as I can remember, you know, I've been so I struggled to succeed. And for me, you know, that was actually the biggest benefit, I think, you know, so growing up, I remember, I just, I couldn't read. So I used to invent what stories were about in books. And I remember in in high school, I, you know, couldn't read the the school class, you know, novels in English class. So I would stimulate very heated discussions about what the book was about in class, so that I can get a gist of what the book was about, so that I could pass you know, the oral tests and things like that. So for me, I think for as long as I could remember, the world hasn't worked for me. So I always tried to bend it to a way that I could survive. And I think that this was just really another case of that, you know, I got told that I didn't have a job, you know, three weeks into my career. And I, I made the decision that the world wasn't working for me yet again, which just meant that I needed to find another path. And I think because I've always done it, you know, it's, it's kind of innate in me that I have that drive to just push through. And I, I think that that somebody is something that a lot of listeners who the world has worked for them a lot. Because of that when something goes wrong, they a lot of times don't go, Okay, well, how do I recalibrate and what's my next path forward? They wonder whether or not they should just give up, they wonder whether or not this is just the way it's always going to be? I mean, you know, I think we have in our, in our native ability that fight, fight, or flight kind of mechanism. And, you know, it happens a lot in entrepreneurship, you know, we either decide that we're going to just be a hustler, and we're going to grind it out. And I hear that all the time. It's depressing in the entrepreneurship world. And then you know, other people just just give up and go, Well, this is just the way it's going to be. And maybe I'll just, maybe I'll just quit. I mean, for me, I mean, when I took that, that commission only sales role. I mean, you I had another big decision like that. I mean, I after five days, product training, and not a single second of sales training, I got thrown on this road called Sydney Road in Melbourne, Australia. And literally, I went to walk into first door, and I had my realization. I mean, no one taught me what to say when I walked in the door. So I took a deep breath, and I walked in, and luckily enough, I was politely told to leave. But then shortly after that, I was sworn out. And I was told to get a real job, which was always my favorite. I mean, it was the only job I could get the door off the door that happened into my 93rd door where I made my first sale. And, you know, I made $70, which I was ecstatic with for about 45 seconds. But then I had that realization, I'm going to do this again tomorrow. And I mean, that wasn't okay. And then I had another moment like that, which was, you know, am I going to be like a lot of other people and just grind it out day after day. And that would have been horrible. But then, you know, I could also give up and go home and tell my father that day one was too tough. And I was like, No, I'm not going to do that. But I mean, 18 of the 20 people I was in a training group with did quit, they didn't come back the following day. So a lot of people do that. But for me, I went, there has to be another way. Because there always is. And I think that's something that all the listeners would really benefit knowing. There's always another way. So I went looking for what that way would be. I mean, a Brian Tracy or Zig Ziglar book would have been great. But you know, for me, I had a reading speed of a sixth grader. So that wasn't really an option. But then I discovered YouTube and I, you know, every, you know, I focused on typing in the sale system, because I hope that there was one. And then I discovered all these great videos on sale system on YouTube, I then practiced, you know, each one of those steps every day, you know, eight hours, I'd be out selling eight hours, I'd be at home practicing weekends, it's been 16 hours practicing, which, you know, sounds horrible to everyone. I'm sure. It was horrible for me. I mean, literally, I got better soon it was you know, $75, then 48, then 36, then, you know, 18, then 12, then nine, then I got it down to on average, I'd make a sale every three doors. And about six weeks in, my manager pulls me aside. And they got the national sales figures. And we said, Matt, we're kind of blown away by this. But it turns out, you know, you're the number one salesperson in the company. I mean, that was six weeks later. So I think that really important that if the world doesn't work for you just know that there's a system or a process out there that can really help you succeed. And I think that's really something that I've known my whole life, because things didn't work out.
Umar Hameed 14:23
One of the things that comes up for me is I am a firm believer in the power of sucking and you were a perfect example of that when you started you subbed and most people give up like you said, and the way to achieve success is go okay, I suck at this, what can I do to get better and then you start tweaking one thing at a time and you do something miraculous, and I think that's really a lesson for life is that you know, don't plan to do the perfect presentation, the perfect sales, call the perfect networking, just get enough knowledge to go out there and measure the results and see what needs changing and if you become that scientist with the process You are going to improve no matter what. And that failure really gives you the tenacity that allows you to achieve greatness. So thank you for sharing that story. I've got a question for you, Matthew, at some point as you started getting success in your life, so you've got real data coming back saying, you know, hey, this is working, but you've still got the mindset of the old Matthew, nothing works for me. So tell me, how many times did you have to kind of be successful for you to really start believing that and living that wholeheartedly?
Matthew Pollard 15:30
No, I think that, you know, I'm not sure if it's an introverted thing, but I never let my ego you know, get away with it would get a get away from me, I think that, you know, my backstory is, you know, that after, you know, getting to a level of success in sales, they promoted me. And, you know, I got promoted like seven times in the space of 12 months. And then, you know, literally fast forward a decade, I've been responsible for five multimillion dollar success stories. But you know, I remember winning this award in 2007, it was the Melbourne young achiever award. And it was for the work that I'd achieved in creating the the largest independent broker for business to business cell phones in the country of Australia at the time. And I remember going home, and I mean, I was miserable. I mean, I was like, I think that I had spent all that time up until then proving that everybody else was wrong when they said that I wasn't good enough that I was never going to achieve something. So for me, at that time, I think I always had this feeling of lack of self worth, like I was trying to still prove to everyone that I was good enough. And I remember that time I made the decision. And I know, I found out that you really can create rapid growth out of anything, but there's nothing worse than the rapid growth business with customers, you can't stand in a business you don't like. And for me, I felt like, you know, at the end of the day, who cares if I save people some money on a call rate, I wanted to do much more than that. I think for me, the only time that I truly let it go, is you know, in 2014, I decided to move from Australia to the US. And, you know, I I made that I still had that that issue of Am I going to be good enough, because I made the decision when I got here that I was going to start my own personal brand. And it was going to be an online brand. And I didn't know anything about online, I didn't even know how to change the word that to the word down a website. And for the first time I was selling me and even that was uncomfortable. So you know, I then had to go through the process of creating and networking method that would work for me in a way that felt comfortable to me. But now, I think that the answer your question is that now that I'm in a position where, you know, I, I've been so successful at what I've, you know, what I've achieved since I moved to the United States, that success is great, but it's the separation of the fact that I get to do what I love every day. And I think that is the true separation, it's you really can create a rapid growth business out of anything. But in truth, there are always going to be people better at what you do, then you if you're not following something that you're truly passionate about, that really aligns with your mission and your gender to help people in the world. And for me, you know, what I do a lot with corporations, my predominant focus is helping introverted service provider small business owners to get out of that hamster wheel of struggling to find insurance prospects and setting themselves apart while making that sale. And what's interesting, as soon as I made that decision, this is the group that I was trying to serve. And I made it about them not about me and my my belief in that I'm here to serve them, and help them get out of that hamster wheel. All of a sudden, I could be less critical of myself. And all of a sudden the strategies, I got to see how they helped others, rather than worrying about how it affected me. And that was the first time that I was truly allowed, what I truly allowed myself to let go of those judgments of what I had growing up how people judge me growing up.
Umar Hameed 18:51
Brilliant. So we're going to go into the working doing now. But I want to backtrack just a little bit. The thing that you know, you were told is that, you know, you're not good enough, you're not smart enough to do that. And you took that as a challenge. And you kind of stepped up, say, I'll prove otherwise, I'll figure out ways to do this, but your best guess and just out of 100 people that hear that kind of feedback, how many would actually shut down? And how many would step up? What's that number? Do you think?
Matthew Pollard 19:15
I would I would suggest that if you're if you were a statistician that the number of people that truly step up would be an outlier, not the norm by any means.
Umar Hameed 19:25
And so would you say if I said 5%? Would that be like kind of in the ballpark of people that would step up?
Matthew Pollard 19:30
You know, I would hope that it would be it would be around five to 10% now, just with the number of people that you know, with, with all of the great content that's coming out to get people to believe in themselves and also to see that you know, the the degree path or to become a doctor or a lawyer to go to the right University and only the right University is not the only way to be successful. I think the fact that we're much more educated now is leading to an increase in that however, I still think it's not high enough. saddens me. But I do believe that, you know, going back to when I was growing up, which you know, when I was in high school, you know, graduated in 2012, you know, the sorry, 2002. When I graduated, then I think it was much, much less, because we just didn't have access to great content like this to help us truly believe in ourselves.
Umar Hameed 20:18
Brilliant. So here's what I'd like you to kind of think about for a moment that, you know, if there is, let's say, a 13 year old or a 14 year old or a 22 year old listening right now, what's the one message you could give them that they've they heard that, you know, Matthew Pollard said this on a podcast that they could hear it and instead of being crushed by that negativity, that they could use it as fuel? Like, what would be that advice you'd give them?
Matthew Pollard 20:41
Yeah, sure. I think that for a lot of people that are struggling, the biggest hurdle that they have is that they don't have a path forward. That seems to work for them. They keep getting having teachers show them a path forward, that doesn't seem to make sense. And they just feel stuck and lost. I know I was. So I think that everybody just needs to know that your path to success may just look different to a lot of the other people that you see in around you and that you're in class with and that's okay, what you need to do is discover a process a system that works for you. And something that where that leverage is your natural strengths. And I mean that if you think back to the story of the ugly duckling that ends up becoming the swan, I have to say that, you know, for me, it was my adversities in life that seeded the success of my future. And if you believe in yourself, and you just don't give up, I truly know that you'll be a success, while and above all the people that just had natural success.
Umar Hameed 21:38
Thank you for that. Matthew, your latest book that's coming out this month is all about the introverted people. And networking goes pretty much when you go to one of those events, there's a group of people that are like next to the wall. If you go say, "Hi", they'll get into conversation, but they're not going to do anything. So tell me about the book and how you want to help those people step up and kind of grow their businesses and grow their social networks.
Matthew Pollard 22:02
Yeah, absolutely. And thanks for asking. So I think that the reason the reason I created this is that my first book that I bought out in 2018, was called the "Introverts Edge", and it focused on how the quiet and shy really outsell their extroverted counterparts. And you know, I was expecting to get slammed for saying that because, you know, sales is an extroverted world. But it was wholeheartedly welcomed. I mean, it was it was listed by HubSpot as one of the most highly rated sales books ever written book authority listed as the number two introvert book ever written. And I mean, it sold 25,000 copies in the first year, and it's been translated into 10 languages now. And all the people that love that book, we're just calling out for a book on introverted networking. And me I mean, when I came to the US in 2008, at 14, I didn't know a soul. And I had to really learn how to promote myself a network because my network in Australia was really largely because of my success in business. And I really had to start again, because no one knew me here. So I had I knew that it was something that I could create. And so I went to work on on putting it together. So the introverts edge to networking focuses on helping introverts realize that they don't have to be that transactional networker in the room that even most extroverts hate being, which is the person that walks around going to want to buy from me now, do you want to buy from me? No, do you want to buy from me? No, it's horrible. I'd hate to be that person. But they also don't have to be that aimless network or they're just, you know, sit in a corner and, and doesn't really talk to anyone or talks to a few people that they know, then walks out going, I've got a few cards, but you know, there's, you know, I'll just wait for them to call me and then they just sit on the desk. So I introduced what I call strategic networking, where 90% of the success in networking actually happens before you walk into the networking room. It's about having the right process the the right message that separates you the right stories, knowing how to deliver that and practice it so that when you get in the room, you can be absolutely a dominating force. But again, learning a way to do it in a way that channels your natural strengths and allows you to do it authentically. But also, I mean, especially in today's day and age, you can know who are going to be in that room before you even go and I'll show you you know, and so the book shows you how to do that, and then shows you how to leverage the digital world so that eventually you never even need to go into a networking room, which is super powerful, especially in this current COVID environment. So that's really what the book focuses on. And you know, my publisher hates me when I say this, but you know, most people think that I'll push people directly to buy my books, but you know, you actually don't need to buy my books. I mean, my the "Introverts Edge - The First Book on Sales", quite often I'll say to people, if you just download the first chapter, which you can download at the introvertsedge.com if you do nothing more than take the first seven steps that I outline, after I get you over that hurdle of believing you can sell and look at what you currently say and put it under those steps, you realize there's a bunch of things missing and there's a bunch of things out of order. If you put what you do in order and then fill in the gaps, you'll double yourselves, you know, easily in the next 60 days and as a small business, I mean that Be what keeps your business alive. And in the second book, The introverts edge networking again, you can get the first chapter at the introvertsedge.com/networking. and there again, I'll get you over that belief that you can't network and show you a step by step process for how you can dominate in the networking room while still being true to your quiet nature.
Umar Hameed 25:21
Before we part company, one of the things you said Matthew, before we started was very much about the authentic self. And most people go through life not knowing who that person is their true, authentic self, because that's where the power is. So how do you help people uncover who they actually are? And what their true story really is?
Matthew Pollard 25:41
Yeah, it's an interesting question, because, you know, I had a lot of people that come to me, especially introverts, they're very analytical thinkers. So because of that, they're very focused on what's practical. And a lot of times they've moved away from what they're passionate about, and what a treat and who they truly are a long, long time ago, you know, I had a client, it's actually part of chapter two, where we talk about passion and mission. And I'm like, well, it's fine to talk about passion and mission. But if you think about it in a woowoo way, where you can't make money, what's the point? Right, but you know, I worked with this guy, Nick. And you know, he was a guy that moved into insurance sales. And if you can imagine networking, the last thing you want to do is run into an insurance salesperson. But I was like, Mike, you chose this industry, there has to be a reason, a passion behind it. I said, help me understand, you know, would you prefer to work with people that earn 50,000 a year or 250? He's like, well, I get more commission out of the 250,000 old posts. And I'm like, Alright, so we're not getting any way there. What about the person that, you know, hustled in school to get to that, you know, perfect degree and got into that dream job versus the person that hustled to start their own small business and employs others? He said, Well, I prefer to work with more the small business owner, I said, Why? And he's like, well, because I feel like they deserve it more. Like why they both worked really hard. He said, Well, I feel like they just created things for a lot of other people. And then he started telling me about his grandfather that owned a farm and, you know, supported so many people and then lost, you know, the farm because he had health issues, and he didn't have the right insurance. And because of that he watched his grandfather just die on the couch watching the TV for like, a decade. And he said, I just you know, I'd hate to see people, you know, live like that and lose everything because they didn't have the right insurance. I mean, I said, why wouldn't you just focus? Why would we just call you, the hustle lifeguard instead of saying you're an insurance salesperson, talk about your mission and passion for helping small business owners realize that they have to prioritize these things, or they could end up in these horrible states and then share these amazing stories. As soon as he started to do that his whole business transformed anyone from the lowly performing, you know, sales rep in an organization to one of the high performers. And now he has his own organization, you know, himself where he actually does this with small businesses, because he's created a brand in his own right. So for a lot of people out there, they think that, you know, passion is just this thing. That is, you know, something that's nice, but not really practical. The truth is, everybody chose their degree, their career choice, specifically do what they love. But then somehow the world of practicality seemed to stop them from being able to achieve that. And what happens is, as soon as they reconnect that in alignment with what they do in their day job, they can have their cake and eat it too.
Umar Hameed 28:18
Matthew, thank you so much for being on the program. And the sad part of your story that you just said is you help this guy out, which is huge, but there are millions of people that have the story buried within them, and they may never discover it and pass this plane. And if we could dig around our passion because it's inside and had a great coach like you to kind of bring it out that we would change the world. Thank you so much for being on the program.
Matthew Pollard 28:42
It was my pleasure, mate. Thank you very much for having me on.
Umar Hameed 28:49
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